NDP calls for “freeze” on Saskatoon condo conversions
Justice Minister Frank Quennell told reporters at a press conference yesterday that the “issue of decreasing rent supply…is an emergency. By the time you realize that it’s a crisis and that you’ve significantly decreased the rental supply because of all of the rental accommodation that’s been taken off them market, there really isn’t a remedy for that – and that’s why we’re encouraging the city (of Saskatoon) to use the powers that they have to correct an emergency situation while we look at everything.” Quennell pointed to “condo conversions” as at least partly to blame for the low supply of rental properties available in Saskatoon and recommended that our local government “freeze” conversions for the time being.
Mayor Don Atchison disagrees that a condo freeze is the answer and points out that condo conversions have affected less than one percent of Saskatoon apartments. Atchison expressed concerns about potential lawsuits which could result from a moratorium, and also the potential for creating a disincentive for developers who might otherwise consider building Saskatoon apartments.
Quennell suggested that rent control, higher supplements for people on assistance and even new legislation are all possible actions which are “on the table for discussion.”
Read the Star Phoenix coverage here
Read John Gormley’s “Housing latest political football” here
You may recall that in April Premier Lorne Calvert stepped forward to “take the credit” for the housing boom which ultimately led to this “crisis.” It will indeed be interesting to see if the NDP government can find their way out of this mess prior to the provincial election next spring.
See a Google map displaying the boundaries of Saskatoon real estate “areas” here
Data collection and calculation for our statistical reports
I’m always happy to answer your Saskatoon real estate questions. All of my contact info is here. Please feel free to call or email.
Follow our daily updates on Twitter @SaskatoonHomes.
Norm Fisher
Royal LePage Saskatoon Real Estate
19 comments so far. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:38 AM
The sad part about all this press over one small issue is that the politicians and misinformed rich will try to use it as a distraction.
Let’s remember, this is an issue I outlined and called down a while back (*gasp* this crazy socialist might be onto something!!). Please also bear in mind it is probably the smallest of all the problems we face now from all the hysteria. So I find it rather fitting that both levels of the government in their lazy stupor chose the easiest one to address.
Maybe it’s because it affects old people, like Lorne? Aha! One of his old buds phoned him up! Must be nice to luck out and match the age demographic of your leader.
The remaining problems are:
o There will be no reversals of already-made decisions.
o There will be no mass development of rental properties to replace those frantically lost in greed.
o There will be no new measures put in place to make current landlords own up to their greed and corner-cutting neglect.
o There will be no new homes made to move the market back towards pre-November prices.
o There will be no solutions put in place to help first time home owners into houses without having to incur crippling debt.
If Calvert wants all the credit, I sure hope he gets all the blame when his arrogance comes back to haunt him. I’d like some reporter to sit down with Lorne for a few minutes and ask him the telltale “Just what the heck were you thinking?!” question. The amount of spin and carefully chosen words would be priceless. It would likely land you one of those George Bush-ian non-answers. Just a lot of evasion and omission.
At this rate, it doesn’t seem like Lorne or Don are interested in a proper solution. Just a lot of talk about unrelated nonsense.
I’d like to remind people who read this comment not to settle for any solutions to condo conversions. It’s too little too late to be looking at this sort of impact now.
They have cherry picked the easiest and least effective issue to address.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:42 AM
One thing I notice about Saskatoon versus just about any Western Canadian city – both larger and smaller cities than Saskatoon – is the relative dearth of new construction. If you look at the skyline of Vancouver, Victoria, Kelowna etc. , it is full of cranes and new towers – not so in Saskatoon. No wonder you are having such a bad housing crunch. The problem is that if your NDP government moves in with a “non market solution”, developers will stay away in droves which will cause even worse problems. I’m wondering how bad the crunch really is – I imagine if the condos are resold as investments then the investors will rent out the units – albeit at higher rents – but they still should be rental stock. Your rents while rising rapidly are still lower than Victoria for example which can’t be said to be a hotbed for highly paid employment. Vancouver salaries are not at Calgary or Toronto levels either – yet real estate prices in Van (and in Kelowna and Victoria) are beyond insane and in a different league than yours. As such, things could get worse – much worse – but the solution in the end will be for the market to increase supply and/or for your economy to produce better jobs which is entirely possible.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Gormley’s a joke.
Hey John, I’ll tell you why people opposed the casino, because it breeds addiction. Maybe take a closer look at the incomes of those “hustling and bustling” into a giant provincial funnel jamming their dollars down. What a clown. Your regurgitated rhetoric is verbatim of the likes of O’reilly.
Tommy Douglas is a national hero and, incase you failed to notice, was voted the most important canadian. People before profit should be the cry of every Canadian that has a personal interest in the preservation of Canada and the citizens therein. And if it’s not, which for you (presuming you consider yourself “sensible”) it clearly isn’t, you should be considered a traitor, a profiteer, un-Canadian… of course I’ve considered you such since hearing the first words broadcast from your mouth to my radio.
You’re an irresponsible journalist Gormley, how dare you condemn social issues and downplay the issue of homelessness. Did you miss the statistic of 100% increase in those approaching the foodbank for help in past months? How about those from the YWCA and YMCA talking about double to triple digit percent increases in their numbers over last year?
The fact that you even have an audience truly astounds me but the fact that you irresponsibly bend truth and downplay fact to sway opinion absolutely enrages me. You have no business pushing your bullshit!
What’s going to happen when students return to saskatoon to find no place to live, what happens at the end of the month when over 200 people are evicted from their apartments, where are those who can no longer afford houses due to increases (who have traditionally been moving into affordable mortgages) going, I’ll tell you where, they’re going into a pool of renters that are causing a huge strain on vacancy rates. All of this will have a long felt negative impact on saskatoon and people like you will be to blame!
Go play Oreilly propaganda somewhere else Gormley. You’re ruining my saskatchewan and your crew is ruining my Canada!
J.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:43 AM
[Slightly related, slightly unrelated.]
I’m listening to a bit on CBC (Ideas) about a book called “Mission Possible”. By Anne Golden, published by the conference board of Canada.
( http://www.conferenceboard.ca/ )
The garbage the author is spewing out is frightening. She pairs a wonderfully official sounding stream of statistics with some really obvious capitalist boosterism.
It’s amazing how any conclusion can come out sounding great in an interview when backed with a few numbers. I never trust statistics presented with an opinion, so most of her numbers went out the other ear…
Anyway, all of her ideas involve investing further into the things that are continuing to widen the gap, yet she claims it can all solve the problems of declining quality of life in Canada.
Basically: Continue doing the kinds of things happening in Saskatchewan right now.
…Brilliant!?
Her best moment was to compel “our aging workforce” to stay longer. Don’t work until you’re 60 and retire. No, stay longer! Until you’re say “65 or 70″!
Say what?!
Try to squeeze more from the already tattered and torn weave of the Canadian workforce? That’s a great idea! Tell me, middle aged and old, powerful horders of Canada: Just when do the 30+s get promoted from their underpaid holding-tank positions? Tell me, when do the 20+s finally get an opportunity to shed the “junior” titles and be given independent responsibility to earn the better pay they’re promised? We have no other way to make money because you won’t pay us more!
Will Canada ever be allowed to grow up?!
The only thing I agreed with the author of this book on was the fact that Europe and Australia have left North America in the dust.
The whole problem right now is that the only people who are capable of getting power and influence are the rich and old. Newspaper, radio, television, politicians…All old, reluctant, stubborn and greedy.
Here’s a wonderful metaphor: There’s this giant dam made by particular beavers which keeps getting higher and higher, drying out everything downstream.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:43 AM
Ron, I don’t suppose Vancouver has -30 to -40 degree plus wind chill weather in winters that are virtually 6 month long? I don’t suppose Saskatchewan has the Mountains and Oceans B.C has? :p
The reason B.C has such a high real estate price is because it has the nicest weather in Canada and it’s one of the most beautiful (natural landscape) province in Canada. It is where the rich people go. Just like California and Florida in the U.S. Most of us would agree that it would be kinda odd to compare rent prices for an apartment in LA to say… Kansas City?
I feel for your pain of such an insane price u have to pay for housing… but I suppose it comes with the environment. Even in Regina, u pay a butt load more for living in a nicer area too.
My question for is: Does people in Saskatoon has such a demand for condos?
April 8th, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Johny!! Holy crap! You really despise the guy don’t you?
Alejo, doesn’t it rain in Vancouver for 6 months a year?
April 8th, 2009 at 10:54 AM
Hi Norm; I posted this on your previous thread without realizing you had a new one started. It’s Bob from DailyStats.ca in Calgary. As a former Saskatchewan resident, I read your blog regularly and find it fascinating. The market in Calgary seems to have stabilized for the time being, thank goodness. For comparison purposes, I just acted on behalf of a buyer who purchased a 1005 sq ft fifties bungalow in a desireable inner city community. My buyer paid $526,000 and we feel that it was a bargain.
There is a benefit to living in Saskatoon that I think all your readers should be aware of. I see it when I read your blog. People come across as much more respectful and, dare I say it, caring and concerned for their fellow man. It can be vicious here, and not just on my blog. The pace is break-neck. We have low expectations for good service in most stores and restaurants, and I cringe if I have to drive in rush hour traffic. On the other hand, there are incredible opportunites here if you are willing to live with some “inconveniences.”
It’s possible to disagree without being disagreeable, but some of my blog participants seem to think it is their duty to be offensive. I frequently have to delete remarks that are gratuitously insulting.
You have a fabulous site with thoughtful and mostly polite commentary.
Norm, our MLS database here provides amazingly detailed information for me to work with. The attitude of some, however, is that it is all lies and fabrications of the real estate board in order to promote high prices. You just can’t please some people!
April 8th, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Bob,
Thanks so much for joining the discussion. I appreciate having the perspective of someone from Calgary who is somewhat familiar with our area.
The “bungalow” which you put forward for comparison sounds like something which might be found here in our Nutana Park subdivision. That home could be purchased between $300,000 and $350,000. It’s a bit of an eye opener to see that there are still some pretty significant differences, and there should be given the more limited income potentials in Saskatoon.
I also appreciate the kind feedback on our community, the type of people who live here, and those who frequent this blog. I do feel very fortunate to have such a good group of people making a contribution here. Some of the angst that you might see from time to time is a result of the sudden and significant change to our real estate scene. We are accustomed to slower, steadier increases and nobody was able to predict that these changes were coming. Many do find themselves on the sideline, essentially pushed out of the market by the fast paced change. Finding a home has been such a challenge that some were priced out of the market while they were actively trying to buy. Prices just rose too quickly. For the most part, these are people who chose to remain in Saskatoon while others were seeking opportunity elsewhere so they feel a little hurt by what’s happened. Of course, my hope is that we can find a way to work through this and that something changes which would provide another opportunity for these folks to own a home.
Thanks again for speaking up. By the way, I am very familiar with your excellent blog as well. Others have mentioned it here and I’ve visited it many times. It’s nice to run across others who wish to understand their market and who are willing to share what’s really going on with buyers, sellers and home owners. Nice job!
April 8th, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Bob, I’m glad you can appreciate some of the qualities that once made Saskatoon a wonderful city.
I regret to say your observations however are becoming more obsolete with each passing day.
With the influx of Albertan mentalities, the disrespectful qualities you very nicely outline have been mass-exported to Saskatoon. Since moving back here in January, I have literally watched the city’s average level of respectfulness and consideration degrade.
It’s no coincidence that the attitudes and overall ego of the city has taken the shape of that which you would find in Alberta.
The prices are low, but imagine if your $500k house was $1million instead, and everything else was the same.
That’s what we’re experiencing here.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:56 AM
…and another interesting response from Star Phoenix columnist Randy Burton.
Read it here
April 8th, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Norm,
Would it be safe to assume that a few newspaper columnists and maybe even some politicians are reading comments here?
If so…What is taking them so long to get on this?!
Looking at the article,
The one thing that stands out the most to me is the fact that the solutions appear to be in the form of either “affordable housing” which to me sounds like slapdash, or the new units which sounds to me like another cash grab.
As I’ve stated before, new homes being built aren’t worth their weight in wood. They still require the buyers to incur crippling debt. I can’t see young couples taking out 600 year mortgages (ha ha) on a 2 bedroom hole in the great wall of sidebysides, and saying to themselves “we’ll never have to worry about this again!”
The length of the mortgage and rates of interest for any home someone has to pay for are still so insurmountable, the problem is effectively unchanged.
People can’t AFFORD houses. REAL houses. Not fake ones that you conjure in the middle of a political crisis. Nobody wants a home made specially for them to be quiet. The reason being that those homes will be of such mass produced ham-fisted quality…Well, now I’m just going in circles…
Something about not being worth their weight in wood??
April 8th, 2009 at 10:58 AM
With respect to the housing prices in BC, I have just returned from Kelowna of which the housing market puzzled me.
A co-worker of mine moved there in June 2006. She stated it was quite difficult to find a home in a desirable neighborhood below 2000 square feet/ one floor. Needless to say, she bought a home (2600 squ. ft.) for $495000 and it is absolutelty gorgeous. Has a walk-out basement and both floors overlook the city – it is essentually on a hill/ mountain top about 3 levels up. Beautiful neighborhood as well. Built in 2005. By comparrison, I beleive a house similar but in Saskatoon would sell closer to $600K+ WITHOUT the view. This got me scanning their MLS paper and it became very clear that buyers were getting more for their dollar in Kelowna. There were even an uabundance of nice condos for under $150K AND in nice neighborhoods.
My question is…. was my perception skewed or our we really getting less for our dollar here (s’toon)? Are houses that much higher priced in S’toon? I will add that there were many homeless people in Kelowna as evident by the people sleeping in a wooded area (known to be where the homeless sleep) and in store fronts with signs. Very sad…….
Thanks to anyone who can answer this!
April 8th, 2009 at 10:58 AM
“Would it be safe to assume that a few newspaper columnists and maybe even some politicians are reading comments here?
If so…What is taking them so long to get on this?!”
Many of the media calls which I’ve had over the last couple of months have referenced the blog so I believe that some of them are reading it.
Three articles in three days. Isn’t that “getting on this?”
Alex, I expect that any action the government takes will be geared towards protecting renters in some way. “Affordable housing” initiatives are likely to be targeted to the most desperate circumstances and will always involve housing which will be less than ideal for what you want. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for some massive “share the wealth program.”
People like you are going to have to find help in the market. As Johny has suggested, this city has to have housing which is affordable. Ultimately, buyers decide what property is worth to them.
The “investment” party is all but over. Watch inventory start to grow as more of these people decide they’ve had enough. At some point, we’ll be back to a market that must attract would be home owners, and perhaps some investors who are more interested in a long term investment which they’re willing to hold, improve, maintain, etc.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Belle:
I appreciate your comments re: Kelowna vs. Saskatoon. I think your new outlying subdivisions such as Briarwood command a big premium in your town vs. older housing. It is the older neighbourhoods which show the biggest differences between Saskatoon and BC. In Kelowna, a 1950′s bungalow just south of the city with no view but in a prime “in town” area will go for $500,000 (keep in mind Kelowna is half the population of Saskatoon without a big university). In your equivalent Nutana area, that same Kelowna home would go for $300,000. In Victoria, that Nutana home would certainly go for $650,000 and $900,000+ in Vancouver’s nice but modest Cambie St. area (NOT Shaugnessy). A westside roomy Caswell Hill home in Saskatoon going for $170,000 would go for $600,000 in a working class part of East Vancouver – which may I remind you good folks is hardly Beverly Hills! You can buy a decent new home and a tiny lot in a place like Langley, B.C. for $500,000 -$600,000 or so but you will be stuck with a 1 hr.+ commute each way through gridlock into town. The point I’m trying to make is that the average family can still afford to buy a house in Saskatoon without a huge struggle. That’s not so in the larger BC centres.Even high income families in BC cities must struggle to afford modest accommodation and you are nowhere close to us. Our prices went up sharply early decades ago thanks to Asian and US investors and now are further being pushed up by Alberta oil money retirees. There is no end in sight for our prices – ever.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:59 AM
A short term pause in the market may be coming but in the long run, as long as the “peak oil” scenario is correct, that is , the world is running out of cheap oil to meet the increasing demand, then all of Western Canada RE will continue to rise steadily. As far as affordibility is concerned, rising prices are more palatable when there are more decent jobs around. I’ve noticed that in BC, there are fewer complaints about affordibility during this boom in the last few years than say in the earlier 1980′s and 1990′s booms. I think that’s because there are finally more and better paying jobs for working people than last time here. There is no reason why Saskatoon can’t generate lots of decent, well paid jobs. You have abundant natural resources, agricultural commodities are in high demand and you have a nice educational and research infrastructure for high tech industry.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:59 AM
They don’t have to put a freeze on it here. The market place is telling the builders not to build.
April 8th, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Yes, Ron but there are too many fellow travelers in Sask (note the ever-present Alex) – they don’t want to be like Alta/BC and will start to make changes (rent controls being the first disaster) which will kill the investor market.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Hey Teresa,
Thanks for the visit. It’s nice to hear from you and I’m sorry to hear that the market is still tough in St. Paul. I’m sure that you’re managing to keep busy just the same.
party line,
“rent controls?” I don’t think so. I expect that the best renters can hope for will be less frequent increases and perhaps tougher rules on conversions. You may see some of these things come forward as election promises but by next spring the condo market will likely be saturated. Many of them will go back to the rental market with improvements.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:00 AM
There’s nothing someone like me can do to “kill” the investor market.
It’s taken hold now and the only way to get rid of them would be to single them out.
The middle class continues to suffer. Time is running out for Saskatchewan and before Winter, new statistics will be coming in. No giant crash will come, but I hope the businesses that are here can get used to getting by without new talent.