Saskatoon real estate: Week in review (August 25-29 2008)
New listing activity in the Saskatoon real estate market was slightly higher than last week with a total of 141 new listings in the residential category. The single-family homes and condo category saw a small decline in new listing activity with 121 units being introduced over the course of the week. As of today, there are 1,059 single-family homes and 499 condominiums showing the active status. Total active listings in the residential category show a small increase to 1,676 properties compared to 1,667 last week.
Sales were pretty much on par with the previous week. A total of 57 properties were reported as firm sales including 53 houses and condos.
The average selling price for the week was just $270,911, down from $276,320 last week and one of the two lowest weekly averages since the middle of March.
I’ve just returned from two wonderful weeks in the Canadian Rockies. I’m feeling ready to get back to work, and excited to see how this market unfolds in the months ahead. My thanks go out to Pamela for managing the phone, email and the blog while I was away. Thanks also to Lyndon Neher for looking after the day-to-day details of the business. Finally, thanks to all of you readers for continuing a lively discussion.
Over the next few weeks, I’ll be considering some new ways to report on the Saskatoon real estate market on a weekly basis. Market changes are probably making some of the numbers irrelevant (over list, under list, etc.). If you have some ideas on what you would like to see, or how you’d like to see it presented, I’m all ears. You can leave your suggestions in the comment string, or drop me an email using the button below the header on this page. Once again, thanks so much for your participation in this community.
See a Google map displaying the boundaries of Saskatoon real estate “areas” here
Data collection and calculation for our statistical reports
I’m always happy to answer your Saskatoon real estate questions. All of my contact info is here. Please feel free to call or email.
Follow our daily updates on Twitter @SaskatoonHomes.
Norm Fisher
Royal LePage Saskatoon Real Estate
60 comments so far. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Glad you enjoyed your vacation =o)
April 28th, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Norm, as a stats junkie, I’m happy to respond to your request for different ideas for stats. I agree that Average Overbid has served its purpose, but I am guessing that Average Underbid may become increasingly important.
I’d be interested in seeing things broken out weekly in the same way that you do monthly — avg. house price vs. avg. condo price — because that people looking for one are not *usually* looking for the other. I also find the “$/sq ft” metric handy, but that’s probably fine if left to the monthly stats.
It’s useful to see the median vs. the mean, and if you could manage to get both of them in that would be nice. Might help reduce the effect of the outliers.
Other things to consider:
- Average weeks on market
- # of listings cancelled
- # of listings reduced, and avg. reduction
Not saying you need to do all of these, just throwing ideas your way. Glad you had a good vacation, and welcome back!
April 28th, 2009 at 9:36 AM
It’s not only nice to see underbid activity, but also a declining average listing price.
Good to see you back Norm. Did you have nice weather in the mountains? As far as stats go I’d like to see a further breakdown between houses and condos with # of sales, and average selling price.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:36 AM
Thanks all.
My concern about breaking those categories (houses and condos) on a weekly basis is that the number of sales is pretty thin already for averaging sale prices, and unit sales are likely to drop over the next few months. I’m concerned that they become completely useless. Some interesting ideas though which I’ll definitely consider.
Heather,
The weather was great given the time of the year. We caught the “hottest day of the year” in Banff. Some of the spots we visited are on the colder side at the best of times but I’d guess we saw an average of around 20 degrees over the two weeks. Primary activity was hiking so that’s just about perfect weather as far as I’m concerned. Pretty darned chilly in the late evening and early morning (below 10 degrees). Could tell that there isn’t much summer left there. Hopefully we’ll squeeze a few more good weeks here before it’s over.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:36 AM
A quick question on this week’s stats: Area 1 had one property sold above list price, but an average overbid of $0, while Area 2 had none sold above list but an average overbid of $100. Were these numbers just swapped?
For a suggestion, I enjoy seeing the $/sq.ft. numbers. If you can report those weekly, and by houses and condos separately, I’d find that interesting.
Thanks!
April 28th, 2009 at 9:37 AM
Hey Norm! It’s good to see you back, and I hope the break was relaxing.
As to ideas for informative statistics, I’d agree with Bookrat- I’d like to see both the mean and the median average price alongside unit sales. I’d also like to see the mean, median, and unit sales as both a “change from last year”, and “change from last month”. Personally, I think the weekly stats might show too much variance from week-to-week to be helpful, but others may feel differently.
Stats I’d also like to see included (also with change YOY and MOM, where possible) are:
-months of inventory/absorbtion rate
-$/square foot
-average days on market
-# of “expired” listings
-# of relists
Welcome back!
April 28th, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Shane,
Good eye! Thanks. I’ve fixed the graphic. Appreciate the suggestions.
Crikey,
Thanks. Relaxing is probably not the right word, but definitely loads of fun and I feel like I got the break I needed from real estate.
I agree with your thoughts on “weekly” numbers. They must be viewed with some care as there can be some big differences from one week to the next when you’re dealing with such a small sample.
Appreciate any and all ideas. In the end, I’ll have to come up with something that I can maintain in a similar amount of time to what I’ve been spending on it over the past year.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Good to see prices seem to be trending (too early?) down, total listings are still up (slightly) and slow sales continue to suggest prices are on the way down furhter. And now everyday water cooler talk is about how all the houses on the block just won’t sell. News of a correction has moved from real estate blog junkie relm to everyday conversation. That’s huge.
$/square foot is a good stat, even weekly, kind of better measure in case a bunch of cheap condos, or high end houses, skew the average.
Crikey, you’re all about the graphs, a $/square foot graph for the year?
April 28th, 2009 at 9:38 AM
LOL… Am I “all about the graphs”?
It’s obviously time to get a new hobby.
Seriously, though, I’d suggest the $/square foot data (and most of the rest of the data, to be sure) may be more interesting going back at least as far as January 2006 and moving into the present. You’d probably also have to break it down into several property types for it to be truly informative.
Any thoughts?
April 28th, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Welcome back, Norm!
Don’t worry, Crikey — we’re all a bunch of stats junkies. I’m voting for ‘days on market’ and ‘numbers of re-lists & reductions’, as well as the mean/median numbers for the monthly data. I agree that weekly breakdowns of average condo price and house price would be too much like hairsplitting, but I would like to know what number of sales were condos vz SFH.
I’m finally back in town, and I’m noticing some things
1) GEEZE it’s freeezing…what did you people do with summer?
2) There’s a lack of For Sale signs! I’m seeing properties that have been on MLS for months, but don’t have lawn signs up. I really notice this in my immediate neighborhood — there are places that are listed, but have not a sign in sight.
I call foul.
3) CBC Radio is going to do a phone-in on “the blazing hot housing market”. Uh, can someone contact these silly people and point out that the ‘blazing hot market’ is rapidly becoming smoldering rubble?
Everyone I’ve talked to is still convinced houses are gonna boom boom boom. *sigh*.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Hey Norm, in regards to your request for stats ideas, I find it interesting to know how many speculator there are in the market. Perhaps showing how many vacant properties on the market would be helpful? just an idea.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:39 AM
CBC thinks the housing market is “blazing hot”?
After the National story was a year too late?
No wonder CBC is the third most watched local news, of 3!
April 28th, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Jrock, boom boom boom? I’m surprised. Most of the people I’ve talked to seem resigned that the boom is over, and are lamenting that they missed out on cashing out a year ago, because they weren’t at a point in their lives to do so. Everyone seems to think holding off for “a couple years” is a wise decision, and a lot of younger friends still in school are considering moving to Alberta. Apparently rent there is about the same as here. And their parents are telling them it doesn’t make sense to buy in Saskatoon now.
Some are kind of leaving in anger, had hoped to stay if you had asked them 2 years ago. Now po’d they can’t afford a condo, so moving to Alberta.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:43 AM
Norm,
I like what Crikey has for a list, but I think sq ft would be the best if just picking one.
jrochest,
first the CBC screw up on the hockey song and now they think Saskatoon has a red hot housing market going into this fall. Who is running that gong show?
April 28th, 2009 at 9:44 AM
Just a piece from Garth’s blog on why we are following the footsteps of the US.
“First sales stagger, then listings explode, then sellers panic, then prices tumble. We’re in stage two.”
http://www.greaterfool.ca/
April 28th, 2009 at 9:45 AM
Norm, I know you’re all against commenting on other businesses, but saskhouses knocked off their story about Saskatoon’s over valued housing. Not sure why. Though their list of “news” stories is admittedly very one sided. We can agree or disagree with the Merrill Lynch report, but pretty big news story. Seems kind of like the guys from Lakewood calling their listing Briarwood. Deception to try to prop up weak demand.
http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=beebc27c-6604-49a2-90a9-be4d04f6553d
Pretending Saskatoon’s market it still hot (CBC, saskhouses) does not make it so!
April 28th, 2009 at 9:45 AM
Dan,
yup just checked with sask houses, and yes they have removed the fifty percent over valued article. Granted they have a business to sell, and when I looked at the saskatoon page, well I had to go half way down before I saw an offer pending. so common sense would tell me that their business is slow; it’s no wonder they took that article off.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:45 AM
Oh, and my other Fun Fact for the week — the conversion at the corner of Lansdowne and 8th has a sign out front advertising 2.99% mortgage rates — for a limited time, natch.
Who says we don’t have teaser rate mortgages in Canada!
April 28th, 2009 at 9:45 AM
I was thinking about what you have all pointed out about most RE sites (and agents, I would guess). I fully realize that they need to butter their bread just like the rest of us, and the pressure to only present information that aligns with their spin must be very high.
That being said, the more I see “out there” the more I appreciate this blog, the reasoning and the people behind it. The fact the stats are presented as just that, stats, with very little “spin” in any direction included, is fantastic. This is a sorely needed source for realistic RE information… as is obviously apparent if CBC Radio is still raving “the market is on fire.” I would laugh, but that it actually pretty damned sad.
jrochest,
I believe we live in the same neighborhood and I have seen at lest 2 houses that were for sale, then reduced (sometimes repeatedly), and now the lawn signs are pulled altogether. One I can no longer find the listing for, and one is now exclusively listed on a private site. I’m not sure what this is about, either. You’d think you’d want to attract as much attention as possible when selling… oh well. Does anyone else know what this is about?
April 28th, 2009 at 9:46 AM
Crikey — Nutuna? Yep.
As soon as I finish my syllabi for the year — and figure out where the textbooks, since they’re not in the bookstore — I’m going to print out the Realtor.ca map for a 10 block radius and actually *look*.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:46 AM
Listings without signs? I’m guessing that the real estate business is running short on signs right now.
Seriously though, I’m wondering if these listings have been rented, or are seeking a renter. Kind of hard to rent a place with a for sale sign in the front yard.
What’s going on with CBC? I received an email about a “housing broadcast” that they’re doing on Wednesday am but got the impression that it might be a fundraiser for Habitat for Humanity.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:47 AM
Strangely enough the house we bought was on the mls and never had a sign. We never really did figure that one out. But we also know there was a divorce involved so not sure if that had something to do with it.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:47 AM
jrochest,
I’m VV, but close enough. Norm’s point about finding hard to rent the place with a “For Sale” sign out front makes total sense, though.
“Listings without signs? I’m guessing that the real estate business is running short on signs right now.
”
Hilarious!
April 28th, 2009 at 9:48 AM
It sounds like the city has lost a lot of service workers during this so called boom. I was talking with a cab driver this weeekend and he said that it was his second full day shift he was working because the company cannot find anyone to work in Saskatoon. He said that all their old workers have left the city for Calgary or back out east as the rents have gotten too high here in town. I’m hearing a lot of stories like this lately. Who knows, maybe last years 5,000 population decrease is going to be a drop in the bucket to this years stats now that cost of living his gone through the roof. If rents continue to rise at 20% a year like they have been, and wages rise a paltry 5%, why would a person stay in the city and become a bit poorer each year?
April 28th, 2009 at 9:48 AM
Norm,
One very informative way of representing the inventory data is by price range. For example, I have been keeping track of the number of houses for sale on the Saskatoon MLS listed at 0-100K, 100K+-200K, 200K+-300K, 300K+, for over two years now. I gather weekly data on Wednesday for the extremely important scientific reason that, being hump day, its a little longer than other days.
Please take all numbers with a grain of salt, while they give the impression of great accuracy, nothing could be further from the truth. The format of the MLS site has changed at least once and I suspect probably twice since the first data point. I used to be able to select the “exclude condos” feature on the site and be reasonably sure that all I was seeing was single family homes. Now, sadly, for whatever reason, I can expect to see shabby apartment conversions scattered throughout the supposed houses only data.
I don’t bother to weed my data, because I don’t think it necessary. If you put your thinking cap on, you will see that the occasional inclusion of a condo in the house numbers should skew inventory to the lower price ranges. As a result, any observable data shift to more expensive price ranges, is probably smaller than the shift in the real prices of single family homes. I am presenting only three data points, in nongraphical form because I do not know how to post a graph on Norm’s website. For those who understand that three points are barely meaningful, I present these three just for flavor and expediency. I have well north of 100 weekly data snapshots. There are holes in the data, because of vacations and forgetfulness. This is just a 10 min middle of the week hobby for me, so I cut myself a little slack.
For those who object to the price ranges, I will just say that they were very reasonable when I started. Here is the data for mid July 2006.
July 19.2006
Total houses: 494 100%
<100K 124 ~25%
100-200K 222 ~45%
200-300K 100 ~20%
300K+ 48 ~10%
There were many very affordable homes for families with incomes in the 30-35K range. The vast majority listed were right at the price expected for a burg with a median income of just over 50K a year. Importantly, houses priced well beyond median affordability, under normal lending guidelines, are an appropriately small part of the market.
July 18.2007 Rats, turns out the only data I have for this week is that the fish were not biting at Elbow, and one very stupid guy ignored advice to use sunscreen. It might make sense to use data from week prior because burned fingers decrease typing accuracy. July 25th’s data may be suspect.
July 11.07
Total houses: 288 100%
<100K 41 ~14%
100-200K 86 ~30%
200-300K 82 ~28%
300k+ 79 ~27%
Very interesting indeed. We see a big drop in inventory, these things are just flying off the shelves. We also are beginning to see the effects of what must be looser lending by banks. This is evidenced by the fact that not only are far more houses priced well beyond traditionally affordable ranges, but they are selling. Loosening credit conditions are not nearly enough, however. There must be some change in the borrower’s that makes them think that taking on heavy levels of debt is not going to hurt in the long run. One hypothesis, admittedly a long shot, is that suddenly buyers, both male and female, in direct violation of all biological rules, decided, a la Lamark, to grow cast iron pair. More psychology changed. “If I don’t buy now…” or “Damn the torpedoes, I’m going to borrow as much money as I possibly can, because house prices only go up, and I’M GONNA BE RICH!!!!
July 16.2008
Total houses: 977 100%
<100K 7 ~1%
100-200K 79 ~8%
200-300K 209 ~21%
300K+ 682 ~70%
uh oh.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:49 AM
s said,
great post, hard to believe only two years ago, a new home in one of the new areas was about 325-350k. Now listed for 500k +. A house in an area similiar to mine like E College Park, homes were being bought for 130-170k now listed for 280-320k. Notice I wrote listed because most are not selling anymore.
I came across this article. Our savings rate is just about the same as the States. A very intersting read if you have time.
http://leavittbrothers.com/chartspeak/ChartSpeak_083108_The%20Great%20Consumer%20Crash%20of%202009.pdf
April 28th, 2009 at 9:50 AM
mls with no lawn sign – my neighbor is still on mls but took the sign down. They were tired of everyone asking them about their house and why it wasn’t selling. They’ve had it listed for over 4 months with a sign with no luck.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:51 AM
sorry some of the new homes are listed for 550k and more.
Some Calgary stats
AUG 08 SFH Av/Med 440K/398K
AUG 07 SFH Av/Med 485K/430K
AUG 08 Condo Av/Med 287K/286K
AUG 07 Cond0 Av/Med 320K/301K
April 28th, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Posted this on the wrong week
Homebuyers turn screws on desperate sellers
http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/29/real_estate/sellers_concessions_in_buyers_market/index.htm
priced out last couple of years? don’t worry, the tables are turning. This is coming in about 2 years.
If you want or need to buy a new home? Make sure it is completely finished, (landscaping, deck, fence, driveway, sidewalk, basement walls insulated and drywalled is finished otherwise I wouldn’t even look at the property). Make sure it has a new home warranty and offer at least %15 less than listing. Because within a year, it will drop more than 10-15% and if you are stretched with affordability, you won’t be able to tap the home equity like years past and finish the house.
I suspect many people won’t do this and we will see in the next few years in Stonebridge and Willowgrove as well that have gravel driveways, no fence, no deck, not much for landscaping cause they have no equity to tap. Many will be house poor. Some specs who can’t sell won’t even cut the weeds.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:53 AM
I was just emailed this from a co worker is looking but won’t buy until at least next year.
I won’t put the listing out but I will put the tag line they used. You will find it if you have time in area 2
“The Saskatoon Real Estate market has been going through a correction period. CMHC is now forecasting a 9% increase in overall pricing for 2009. Now is the time to buy and hold. This home offers an excellent rental income, or you can live in it with a mortgage helper in the basement. You can’t lose with this one as we offer this below the appraised value. Offer now or you lose out.”
Some people just don’t get it.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:54 AM
Nice post, s.
It’s especially interesting to watch what happened at the high and low ends of the price ranges, as well as the inventory. What an extreme difference.
Yowza.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:58 AM
An old link
http://bp0.blogger.com/_5Unw8_SY09A/RnquWEGsayI/AAAAAAAAABU/S1XGE37RXJI/s1600-h/RealEstate_ValueChain.gif
The first time buyers and home buyers in general should realize that no body is ‘working for them’. Almost everyone sitting on top of them is making money out of them. It could really pass on as a healthy eco-system in normal times, but in times of global credit bubble and real estate mania, the ones at the top generally become more exploitative of the others below them.
Some questions that could probably be answered:
Who are the biggest winners if the prices go up? Who loses the most if the prices go up? Can the food chain really survive if the first time borrowers are priced out? What happens if there’s an over abundance of real estate agents?
April 28th, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Another drop for Saskatoon real estate this month.
Average price between 280-285k
Sales have stumbled to just over 200.
The dropping prices are what are not gonna hurt this market, it is going to be the lack of sales. Demand is slowing and will slow even more after Oct. 15th. With inventory ever increasing ( expired listings must be going somewhere and will come back soon) Until housing starts are slashed to 04 or before levels, inventory will stay at record levels because immigration will not fill up those new homes.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:59 AM
You have some very good points, George, but I’m of the mind that people in general need to do far more research and take far more personal responsibility for what may be the most significant financial purchase of their lives. You probably agree.
I’ve said this before, but when someone makes a less-than-stellar financial decision, it is far easier to blame someone else (be it the government/banks/the RE industry, etc.) than say, “Geez, that decision originated with me and I’m responsible for it”. This of course, should not appply if you were actively duped. I understand that lending standards got way too loose, the government and banks made it way too easy to borrow, and the RE thing was (and is) overly-hyped, but no one is forcing anyone to bite off more than they can chew financially.
Your end questions are interesting, though. I think we can see that as things get really out of hand, everyone loses, even the banks. As to the over-abundance of RE agents, it’s like an over-abundance of anything- when things get nasty, the fit will survive.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:01 AM
George,
With regard to the Oct 15th removal of 0/40 mortgages, wouldn’t the pre-approval be good for 60 days, bank willing?
People could get pre-approved Oct 14th and buy in Nov or Dec. So the sales numbers could stay much the same week-on-week. There may even be a bump in sales as people rush to get in under the wire.
But I think your assessment of the tables turning in about two years is reasonable given what we can see across the border. As much as you can predict anything…
Disclaimer: First time buyer currently renting.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:02 AM
RGC,
if people rush to get in under the wire so they can be stretched to the max for over 40 years, they are seeking financial armageddon. If these same people could not afford a place in 06, they should not buy until at least 2010. They will save hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years.
Crikey,
you are correct, everyone is the master of their own destiny. In this day and age, people should take more responsibility for their own actions. But the problem with RE in the last few years throughout the world is that many people bought because of fear and greed. The fear was put towards the bottom of that pyramid and the greed came from the top of it.
People have been bombarded by media, billboards, realtor signs, building construction, people talking at coffee row, coworkers talking at work etc about real estate going up. It is almost as though people were brainwashed into buying, it is hard to blame some of them.
For the people like you, who knew something was funny and did the proper research, good for you that you did not drink the kool-aid.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:02 AM
A solution to labour shortage and ongoing need for contractors, trades people and just grunt labour AND a solution to the surplus of listings/agents?
Half of Saskatoon’s real estate agents should get jobs in construction. Construction workers are still needed. Or get a job at Cameco. This will help our economy grow, and maybe in a few decades time, our economy will actually justify current prices!
If nothing else, tough to feel sorry for fly by night agents – they should fill the many vacant jobs that our economy needs!
I’m sure Norm has the mad skills to sell the few houses that actually sell here each week.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:03 AM
My rent is going up again… yay.
The people of Saskatchewan want to retain young people in the province; but they also want to take them to the cleaners on housing.
If it takes 2 years for the market to straighten out… i’ll be long gone. I’ll head west for greener pastures like my brothers before me. Neither of them have come back. Good luck running a society with a huge bulge of old foggies and a shortage of educated, young, productive people.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Dan,
That’s funny.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the agent population.
eff_that,
You in a house or an apartment?
April 28th, 2009 at 10:06 AM
eff_that,
amen brotha. there has to be SOMETHING to keep people here…though haven’t found it yet…just for commute times isn’t nearly a good enough reason to put this above other places in my opinion…ESP for young people.
ps. my rents also going up again….ugh
April 28th, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Man Jesse! How many rent increases is that now?
April 28th, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Really like the blog Norm. Great job.
Apartment in Regina. Currently $850 for 860sq/ft 2 bedroom suite in apartment city across from the U of R. Mostly 60′s decor – the dreaded b-walk.
Going up to $925. They’re renting for $1,000 right now; so it’ll go up to that (at least).
We took a look around and there is crap availible. Our b-walk suite never looked so good actually. Seems to be a fair amount of houses for rent; but usually for much more than $1,000 (unless crap).
I’m tryin to build up a down payment, but it feels like all I do is feed the b-wolf!
Hate to come across as whiny – it just bothers me that first time buyers are getting hammered so bad in this here “boom”. I don’t think it’s good for the province.
My sister-in-law was recently out and guestimated that this place would go for $1,300 in “Vancouver” (they live in Richmond now; but have lived all over the GVA, so not sure in what area she was referring to – I’m thinking average).
Think living in Vancouver is worth $300 more a month? Might be once the snow flies!
April 28th, 2009 at 10:10 AM
eff_that,
Thanks.
Things are going to change, sooner rather than later.
Here’s an encouraging word for you and posted by George in another thread.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/features/usaid/story.html?id=560c333a-a888-4d19-aa14-d4b5108c208f
April 28th, 2009 at 10:10 AM
As an aside, b-walk used to charge $150, non-refundable, per pet (gouge to begin with… for us anyway; with 2 neutered, trained cats).
They just upped it to $250 per pet! NoN-RefundablE!
Funny, there seems to be just as much dog s#it on the lawn as before!
They know the low end market is tight and people with pets are vulnerable. Tsk, tsk. And all the profit goes straight back to Calgary! (well, almost)
Joy to the world!!
In fairness there are some horrible pet owners (my neighbour is one).
April 28th, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Eff That, I recommend Red Deer, seemed to be popular on this blog a while ago, seemed cheap, apparently good jobs.
Personally, more a fan of E Town (edmonton) reminds me of Saskatoon, high end jobs, pays Way more than Toon town (so I guess moderate amount more than Regina) and actually rent is cheaper.
And U of A is a better school than U of R and U of S combined!
April 28th, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Norm, interesting Vancouver Sun and other media outlets are so much more blunt about real estate market. Vancouver’s listings are up way less than ours, their sales down less. And we’re still getting sugar coated news.
Apparently DeNial is only a river in Egypt and Saskatoon.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Norm,
I assume Jesse’s building is like most everywhere else in the city where rent increases are now demanded every three months. It’s kind of depressing as you just sign on for the one increase to keep your place and then a month later you get a notice that in two months time your rent will be going up again to “more closely reflect the market conditions.” Should the market tank I wouldn’t anticipate them lowering rents at the same absurd pace.
Quite franky, like some others on the forum I am finding it harder and harder to care about what happens in this city anymore. It’s become a very ugly place to live for those renting as well for inviduals who were unable to buy pre-boom.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Norm,
July07-Dec07 – $530 for my 1 bedroom 1960′s apart.
Jan08 – $650
Jul08 – $750
Oct08 – $850
It’s not as bad as some others, but is still insane. Insane for nothing being done besides carpet, paint in the corridor and handrails.
I will expect another 100 or so bucks for January…
April 28th, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Jason,
You are completely right. Even when i searched for a decent place last July when my rent was at $530 a month, I lucked out on the place I got…No holes in the walls, NOT 800 bucks, NOT in stabsville…it was BY FAR the pick of the litter. Nothing in the city could compare to the place I got. 618 sq ft.
I don’t like the attitude that is around here anymore either. I remember the big question used to be ‘so when you getting married?!’ from people…now it’s turned to “so when are you getting into a house?!”. Like it’s some kind of measuring stick for adulthood or respect. Newsflash it isn’t.
Sorry went into a bit of a rant.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Norm,
Did you make it to Johnston Canyon? One of my faves in that area.
Re: your format. I have very much enjoyed and appreciate the info you have shared in the the year and a half I have been reading. It is my hope you keep the same format, and if anything add to it. I have read some of the other blogs (Ed and Calgary mostly), and while I greatly appreciate the info given I have yet to find something that breaks things down as clearly as you have. Please keep the breakdown of the listings and prices by area, as well as the total prices. If there are catergories to add by even better.
Also, there are some keen number crunchers on this blog. Maybe you could delegate or someone could volunteer to lighten the load as real estate is anything but a 9-5 job.
However you proceed, thanks for all the effort put in and thanks also to the bloggers for the comments.
PS, is your office on Taylor and if so how is your new home??
April 28th, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Norm –
CBC is doing the broadcast from a Habitat for Humanity construction site, but it’s actually on housing. The promo I heard today was a little more balanced-sounding: a discussion of ‘the volatile and changing housing market…’.
So yes, Norm, if they’re asking you to comment, do it.
*****
s’s post is WONDERFUL — nice to see someone else does this. I count listings by slice every Thursday AM, but I’ve only done it for the last 18 months. And I don’t keep track. One thing I’ve notice in the last month or so is that there are more than 500 properties in the 300-400K slice. And the plus 400K set a) has grown like topsy and b) barely changes at all. There’s a fairly brisk & lively turnover in SFH’s in the 100-200K slot, and there’s reasonable change in the 200-300K houses. But the properties in the 400K slice don’t budge.
There seems to be a point of resistance here.
“Renting without a sign” — I’m not sure that’s too hard, these days. I”m sure that that’s the case for many of the small places in VV & Nutana; they’re all mostly tenanted anyway.
God, I’m lucky in my landlords — I’ve moved back into a house I rented when I first came to Saskatoon, because I know and trust the landlords and because I love the house –which was pretty pricey when I first moved here but is now just right.
I’m probably the only tenant whose landlords WON’T raise the rent unless they have real, nasty price increases in heating/running costs. But I’ve been chased out of the past three places I rented by rent increases & condo conversions, so I feel everyone’s pain.
One thing I’m noticing, though, is that Kijiji has a great many more reasonably priced ads: the basements are going for 750, not 1,000, and there’s loads and loads and loads of people looking for roommates. And the number of places that are trying to rent out something they’re trying to sell are growing.
My fave? A 2 bed condo in Lakeview, listed for 219K that’s being rented for 975 a month (about half of the prospective mtg payment). The best part is that the ad mentions the fact that the place is listed but (the seller laments) notes that there has been NO INTEREST AT ALL FOR 4 MONTHS — not one offer, almost no viewings. I assume this is going to make the tenant feel safe — but of course, they’re safe as houses.
The cream of the joke? There’s an identical unit in the same building, on the same freakin’ corner, that’s two floors lower, listed for 159K. 50K difference? I don’t think Mr. 219K’s tenants will have to worry.
Anyway — I’m starting to dribble (beer #2) — but I think the rental market is starting to loosen just a teeny weeny tad. I hope, for all our sakes, that this is true.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Oh, and Jesse & eff_that — I had a similar nasty landlord last year. My rent went from 650 when I moved in, in August, to 800 in September to 950 in January to 1260 in March.
At which point they told me they were going condo, and offered me the place for 329K.
And I told them, with my characteristic old-world courtesy, into which bodily orifice they could insert their asking price.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:25 AM
I have heard bits and pieces on the radio this morning. Funniest one so far? The guy from CMHC. In a nutshell, he stated that the city’s seen a decline in the number of sales and that listings are high, but that there are 1400 some units coming online in the next year – 2 years that will help ‘alleviate’ the shortage of ‘affordable’ housing units. (Yeah not if no one can afford them they won’t)
He also stated that he doesn’t expect prices to drop and that the 1400 units should solve the problems.
Still love how thier website is so outdated…I mean who would want to state the nightmare on thier site…that wouldn’t draw ANYONE to the city… Check it out if you want a laugh.
http://cmhc.ca/en/co/buho/seca/sa/sa_002.cfm
I need coffee..
April 28th, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Jesse,
Thanks for the rental info. Ouch!
Jedi,
Johnson Canyon is beautiful. It was one of the few places that we hit last year when we were returning from our trip to the island so it didn’t make the list this year.
Our office has relocated to 620 Heritage Lane (between Heritage and Taylor), effective August 1. We love the new office space but we’ve decided to stay in our home, at least for now. Improvements to Circle Drive allow for an 11 minute trek which really isn’t that bad.
Thanks for your input on the weekly reports.
jrochest,
I didn’t make the CBC deal. First real day back at work yesterday kept me going fairly late and I just didn’t have the jam today.
Jesse G,
That is funny. Their website seems a tad bit dated (20% of income). Uh-huh.
From today’s Star Phoenix. “Summer sees drop in average house price.” Front page teaser read “Average price of Saskatoon home tumbles.”
http://tinyurl.com/69trsr
April 28th, 2009 at 10:26 AM
No prob Norm,
I just wonder how many people outside the province look up the CMHC data as their basis for moving out here. When I was in Calgary this summer, my girlfriend and I were in a store where the Clerk, an east indian gentleman was quite chatty, asked where we were from and then when we said Saskatoon, he perked up, saying he’s heard GREAT THINGS about it! He then asked how much rent was out here as well as what jobs start at. His expression DROPPED when we told him rent for a 1 bedroom apartment, a 2 bedroom apartment, and then income levels for different kinds of jobs. Needless to say, he said he’s staying in Calgary. At least he asked though instead of being blindsided…
Still haven’t gotten my coffee….heh.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:27 AM
From that newpaper article
“We’re more on par with 2003, 2004, 2005 – so we’re indicating a return to a more normal, stable environment,”
What is on par? prices? no, listings? no, housing starts? no, sales? actually less.
First time buyers are mostly priced out and trade up buyers are not really trading up. Immigration has slowed. Housing starts NEED to be slashed so inventory does not keep climbing. But with the way things are going, it will be good for renters in a short while.
This is not a normal market. It is not a sellers market because very few homes are selling. It is not a buyers market because prices are way too high.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Agreed George..
on par with 2003 etc? What so you mean my rent will be back at $500 bucks or less? Housing will be what…$150 grand or less? Sometimes I think people have no idea how far it’s out of whack. Though it is the media so it’s not a suprise…
April 28th, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Jesse G.,
This is Janzen, the guy in charge of SRAR who said that.
Janzen, just has to read this blog, cause it seems his information is from the same source the States had in 06 and 07.
April 28th, 2009 at 10:28 AM
I was just thinking that if we analyzed commodities like bead and gas the same way as real-estate, ie affordability, we would find that a lot of them are at least 200% over valued. Maybe we should all stop buying them too!
April 28th, 2009 at 10:28 AM
Well Brian I think a lot of people are buying less.
I haven’t used beads since I was a kid and
gas use/travel is actually down in the US, as are SUV sales and small cars are less. Real estate sales are way down, reasonable to live at home or with room mates a bit longer. Especially with prices falling!
And gas prices are way down, oil is under $110 a barrel, $40 off from high recently.