Dont get mad when I call you on crap just because im unlearned doesnt mean im always wrong. If you didnt mean what I and probably others thought you meant please enlighten us or dont dish out if you cant take it =o|

“I did occur to me it would be a bit odd for a “highly compensated mine worker” installing lights in Armoth’s microwave. Oh well.” What does that imply?”

It implies I think it’s odd. Not that “he is supposed to be at home doing nothing when he is on strike and to not leave his home”.

Please, give us a break. You don’t need to take everything as a person affront to your humanity. Chill.

I see what you are saying, but your argument is a little one sided. Not all people are single income first time home buyers. Whether it was a good deal or not, people purchasing homes in Saskatoon during July had the ability to fork out $260/sf.

On another note: Vegas, a city that largely depends on disposable incomes, has dropped 29% since its peak. Merrill Lynch says that our home prices are overvalued by 50%? I think they missed a decimal place.

“I did occur to me it would be a bit odd for a “highly compensated mine worker” installing lights in Armoth’s microwave. Oh well.” What does that imply?

Grrr,

Thank you for seeing me more valuable than I really am hopefully the market doesnt correct and I dont become as worthless as a Merrill Lynch economist thank you.

I currently rent. My neighbour works full-time as administrative support for an autobody repair shop. She was having trouble covering her rent (which has gone up quite a bit in the last 9 months) along with other rising costs (primarily energy). She threatened to quit and move back to small town SK. Her boss gave her a $1 raise (per hour). She decided to stay, but had to take a second job at Mark’s Work Wearhouse.

We’re talking rent here – nevermind owning her own home or even saving up for a down payment.

It really made me appreciate where I’m at.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/business/15sell.html?_r=2&ref=business&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin#

And we have the “you’re richer than you think” slogan. Hmmm.

Armoth,

“I will tell him that Crikey said he is supposed to be at home doing nothing when he is on strike and to not leave his home”

Where did I say any such thing?

I recently graduated with a Masters of Public Administration. It’s a fairly in-demand degree – I had no trouble getting a job. I make $61K. I have $27K student loan debt. My job is a one year term, which seems to be the norm at my level; My co-worker just got on permenant after 4 1-year terms.

Wages are increasing (in some sectors anyway), but only a small proportion of people are making the kind of money that Bill and Armoth are quoting ($100K+). I imagine the “average job” pays less than half that.

Your right it is weird maybe when he comes to visit I will tell him that Crikey said he is supposed to be at home doing nothing when he is on strike and to not leave his home. On a lighter note do you want to know something interesting I made more than Merril Lynch and Jp Morgan combined im so rich and you are too. Maybe they will write a report for us that im 50% overvalued…

I thought abbout something when George asked for the graph of home prices over the last decade or so. I think we’re all looking for a little perspective on this thing, and I’m not all that familiar with the Saskatchewan/Saskatoon market in particular. I know inventory is higher than Norm has seen it in (15?) years, and sales have slowed (certainly from last year).

I know Norm is on holiday, but it may help lend some perspective to look at inventory vs. sales ratios in the past, including past recessions in 1982 and 1990. The one in the 80′s was particularly severe. If the inventory vs. sales ratio is about the same as in past “slowdowns”, then we have some historical perspective. If, however, the ratio is higher than it’s ever been, well- that would be “interesting” too. No?

Any chance you work for BP?

Very good post. Your references to the disparity and quality of life issues in Calgary reflectr what is at the heart of my discontent here. I am leaving Calgary for Saskatchewan. Luckily I’m in a position where the money is slightly better and I think some lifestyle issues will be greatly improved. I will most likely be back as I love Alberta but after a number of years in Calgary I need to recharge my batteries.

Just did a little checking and the average size of a home sold here this year is 1,108. I can’t imagine that the average size of a Canadian home is 2,000 unless they include basement in that.

Warren,

Some great points.

“What they may make a year from now, or two years from now, or whenever is irrelevant.”

I agree that this is not relevant to today’s price of a home in Saskatchewan but is this type of increase indicative of a wage trend? I believe our nurses just negotiated 30%+ over three years. Looks like 35+ is a slam dunk for potash. Who’s next, and where does it end? Could this be a sign that things are about to change over the next few years? Interested to know if anyone can speak to that. Are there any similarities to how things unfolded in Alberta when incomes started to grow faster than the rest of the country?

That was a good post and I think the union offer is a push to get PCS to meet them in the middle. And I think you are right on most and I wish housing was as cheap as when I bought it but I dont think we will ever be at those levels again unless something dramatic happens to the world. And it has to happen globally not just to the USA because contrary to their belief they are not the center of the universe <—(I am j/k)

“Where the math brings me” is that by your own admission, a miner (which is one of the more premium jobs in a potash mine) is making around $75,000 before bonuses right now. I emphasize the words “right now”. As in “right now” with housing costing what it does.

Bonuses run around 10%, so let’s even round up and say that it’s $85,000.

I have been making the argument that home prices have gotten ridiculouly out of whack with incomes in Saskatoon. You disagree. I asked for proof of high paying jobs in Saskatoon (to be specific, I asked for high paying jobs that would utilize one or both of my degrees) to justify the price of homes. You have finally countered with working in a potash mine for $85,000/year. What they may make a year from now, or two years from now, or whenever is irrelevant. The point is trying to compare current incomes with current home prices.

So with a conventional mortgage (10% down, 25 years, 5.5%), this miner can afford a MAXIMUM home price of $333,132 (from RBC’s online calculator). And the average price of a SFH in Saskatoon for July was $322,715.

So this premier job you have submitted to me can barely afford the average Saskatoon home. What does that say about the 92.4% of the province (again, from StatsCan’s numbers) who make LESS than $75,000/year? I encourage you again to look at the StatsCan numbers. They don’t lie.

The whole gist of my argument is that I hear constant comparisons of how Saskatchewan is/was cheap compared to the other places (mostly Alberta). Housing was cheap because everything else was reflective of that. Now housing has skyrocketed and incomes have not followed suit. If the potash workers do take the 10%+ annual increase that PCS is offering them – it will be (to my knowledge) one of the sweetest increases Saskatchewan employees have seen in a long, long time.

You asked me to send in a resume if I prove to be wrong and miners do end up making $100,000 after this contract is renegotiated. I wouldn’t send in a resume to PCS to make $100,000 because I don’t want to take a pay cut from my current compensation. Well that and the awful, awful shift work (3/2′s are one of the cruelest things man has ever inflicted upon itself). I’m not saying this to sound cocky, or make myself out to be special – just the opposite. I’m trying to illustrate the point that I am not unique in Calgary. Very fortunate, but not some sort of a statistical error. There is a lot of disparity, that is there are a lot of people here making not a lot of money who can barely get by (I believe our homeless rate is the highest in Canada), but at the other end of the scale there are a lot of people making very generous amounts of money. Housing prices were high in Calgary because many salaries are high. And even still, we’re down 10-20% (depending on what numbers you’re looking at) from the peak already.

I’m not saying this to bash Saskatchewan. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t like Calgary. For many people there is more to life than money, and Calgary does not offer a lot in terms of those “other things”. But we are talking about home prices, which require money to buy. There are many things that Saskatchewan has going for it. But one of those things (as has been mentioned on here before) was an affordable cost of living. That “Saskatchewan advantage” has now disappeared in a bubble of greed and envy.

LOL!!

Great posts Warren.

Of course Warren a potash employee would lie to me cause its in his best interest of course it makes so much sense. How bout for the sake of not arguing we assume I was wrong and the offer was 35% over 3 years and the unions counter offer was 75% over 3 years and where does the math bring you on som1 who makes 75k without bonuses there. Just wait until the new contract is finished if im wrong ill shove my foot in my mouth. And if im right you send a resume to Potash Corp good day sir!

p.s.

thx vinny i have taken your advice and the third draft was much more appropriate .

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=348d8675-a197-4e1a-b527-f5c6b4c08bfe

“We made an offer we thought was extremely fair and reasonable,” Johnson said, noting the company had proposed wage increases of up to 35 per cent over three years.

That’s 35% over THREE years Armoth…not a “35% annual increase”. So more along the lines of 10% a year. Get it?

So again, your “facts” are horribly wrong.

A $25,000 bonus per quarter?? Lol – so you were told that the union is asking for $100,000 just in bonus for its members? Plus salary?? And you believed it?Wow.

btw, did I mention that only 3% of Saskatchewan makes over $100,000 a year?? I think I did. I’ll repeat myself – only 3% of Saskatchewan makes over $100,000 a year. Apparantly you believe that they all work in potash mines.

I have a employee from the mines installing lights and my over the range microwave yes the Potash mines. The agreement offered by Potash Corp was 35% annual increase and bonuses do the math and you will find that is over 100k. Now they didnt accept that agreement the union asked for 75% pay increase along with 25K per quarter bonus now do you just want to give it up and ask your family or friends again since you are mistaken.

great link, always wanted to know the difference in wages at the upper end Sask vs Alb. No contest!

Even though they are 4 times our the size of us, they have almost 3 quarter of a million making 50k or more, we have about 3 quarters of a million making 5k.

I would think that a 700 square foot home is probably a little smaller than “average”. As far as bungalows are concerned, 1000 squares is probably somewhere closer to average.

guy_in regina,

Thanks! I think I will.