December 2008 ended with 1121 not 1127

January 2009 ended with 1124 not 1156

February 2009 ended with 1298 not 1313

It’s in print just review Norm’s posted numbers form last “week in review” for each month

; )

[NOTE TO SOURPUSSES: I AM MAKING A JOKE]

(That is one thing I still find so odd, after ten or so years of visiting Tulsa–restaurants, medical clinics, etc will have one of those “no smoking” images on their front doors; only instead of a picture of a cigarette, there is an image of a handgun. So alien to me.)

“[By the way: I think it was 10 out of 11])”

I see. Oddly the article you initially linked to starts with, “Reader’s Digest ranked 15 of our biggest cities on their consideration for strangers” and the later says, “Saskatoon came in tenth…” I guess that’s how I got confused.

“I guess you will just have to experience it yourself one day, and visit Tulsa, and report back to me!”

I’m quite willing to take your word for it Robin.

As a matter of fact, when I first introduced the whole “Saskatoon people aren’t polite” thread, I wasn’t being gravely serious about it. But there was one or two sour-pusses who made it a serious issue and who were certainly taking it personally, so I came back to clarify my position.

[By the way: I think it was 10 out of 11])

http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/2007/11/courtesy/main.php

; )

Seriously: that’s great that you try to set a positive tone with people (and with people in the retail industry in particular), but I guess what I’m saying is that in Tulsa, the manners level is just greater–people are much more likely to do what you yourself say you do. Again, I guess you will just have to experience it yourself one day, and visit Tulsa, and report back to me!

(Note for the sourpusses who take everything I say so personally: Do I think Tulsa is a utopia? No, I sure do not. You should have a look at their crime rate. Tulsa was [supposedly] recently ranked as one of the best places to live in the United States, but I’m pretty sure their crime level is fairly high.)

I certainly can’t disagree with your comments about the cost of living.

“You’ll note Norm, however, that I never said that Saskatonians were “assholes.” I did, however, make the observation that we seem to be walking zombies at times)”

I did not intend to imply that you had said that. You said, “(Oh, and the people down there [in malls, on the street] are polite, courteous, and friendly. And retail employees actually strive to help you! Unlike the people in Saskatoon.” That just sounds like an *** to me.

I would have to be in a helluva hurry not to take note of who’s around as I walk through a door in a public place. People nearly always say “thank you” when I hold the door for them. Yes, I obviously run in to people who are rude, impolite, but I do my best to set the tone with those I interact with and find that a smile and a gentle hello are most often effective in creating a little warmth. When I’m rudely treated in a retail environment I’ll jump right on it. “Oh, I’m sorry. Obviously I’ve come at a bad time” or “forgive me, am I interrupting something?” You should see the look on their faces if you manage to pull that off with just the right amount of sarcasm.

As for the Reader’s Digest “study.” According to the link you posted Saskatoon was 10 of 15, which is “almost” towards the middle of the pack, not nearly dead last. In any case, as a “realist” I’m sure that you don’t actually take this seriously, do you? I mean the idea that you can rank cities for “polite and courteous.”

“In Saskatoon, our female tester closely followed an elderly lady in a pink sweater through the doors of the Scotia Centre mall, but the woman made no attempt to hold the door open.” Shame on that elderly woman!

Matt, I hate to say it, but it really is true: I’d say that about 9 out of 10 Tulsans on the street (or in malls, etc) will go out of their way to either greet you, or say “excuse me,” ask, with a smile, if you need assistance (esp. if they are a sales clerk) or even open a door for you! Or, if you offer to open a door for them, they’ll thank you (as opposed to staring blankly at you, or otherwise completely ignoring your generosity).

(You’ll note Norm, however, that I never said that Saskatonians were “assholes.” I did, however, make the observation that we seem to be walking zombies at times)

Now, of -course- one cannot call every single Saskatonian impolite. I’m not so ignorant/naive as to believe that every single person living in Saskatoon is discourteous and unfriendly. That, of course, is not the case. Of course there are those individuals who are polite and courteous to strangers on the street. I myself try to be polite

and courteous to others. I’ll hold open doors for others, and I’ll actually say “thank you” when others hold the door open for me, etc. But I have to tell you that overall, in general, Saskatonians are not very polite. (As a matter of fact, Readers Digest once did a study of the most polite and friendly cities across Canada, and Saskatoon scored second last in this study–so almost dead last. So it’s not just me who has observed this tendency for…zombie-ness on the streets.) There are always exceptions to the rule, but overall, Tulsans have us beat in the courtesy and politeness department. Matt, I guess you’ll just have to take a trip down there for about a week, and observe the courtesy-differences for yourself.

Amanda has been living here permanently since 2004. Early on, she told me how impolite and oblivious people in public are here, when compared to the people back home. *Especially* people in the service sector. (To be blunt, the level of retail service here is piss poor. I’ve experienced it first-hand. If John Doe owns a retail store, you’d think he’d want to go out of his way to serve you, or at least acknowledge your presence, but that really doesn’t seem to be the case here. Not very often, anyhow.) At first, I found it hard to believe Amanda and her observation. But I began to see it for myself, and she’s right. I guess it’s just something you have to realize for yourself. The level of service and courtesy in Tulsa is just…more prevalent I guess.

; ) And you have to remember that I’m not reflecting on people’s character or their true worth or anything. And there were plenty of examples of Good Samaritans during the crazy blizzard we experienced a few Januarys ago. I’m merely making the observation that as a whole, Saskatonians on the street, in the mall /etc, just aren’t very…polite. People will tend to walk past each other/walk in front of each other without any sort of acknowledgment. And I can’t count the number of ungrateful people I open the door for, or move aside for, etc. That’s just not the case in Tulsa. Sorry Matt, but it’s just the truth. Saskatoon people are just…different that way.

[Of course, if I were to get into an involved political/religious discussion with an average Tulsan, the discourse may not remain as pleasant (as I am pretty much a liberal, and Tulsa is right in the heart of the conservative bible belt!).]

Also, I wish to point out that when I asked earlier why I was still living here, I was, of course, reflecting on the low cost of living in Tulsa compared to here. As you all know, I firmly believe that housing prices here are grossly distorted from their actual, true value. There is just no way that a small 1920s home north of downtown is worth $300,000. It just isn’t. Not for what you get in this small city. Does that make me a Saskatoon basher? I guess I fail to see that connection, but so be it. Am I wrong to make that observation? I’m just a realist, I guess. Rather, a “realist” living in this Bizzarro world where the cost of living in this small, northern city surpasses any number of U.S. cities whose population is 3-4 times greater than ours, with many more amenities. It doesn’t mean that I think Saskatoon is completely useless, or that I think it doesn’t have any worth. There are things I really enjoy about Saskatoon. But the cost of living here has gotten way out of hand. I am definitely guilty of getting on my pedestal on more than one occasion and getting snarky and bitchy about the cost of living here, because it’s not only affecting my bottom line, but also because it’s needlessly forcing good people–especially the elderly–out of their homes, and costing them an arm and a leg just to survive. So you’ll have to forgive me for ranting about how illogical I believe this current “boom” is.

In the airport on the way home, we got to talking to a young man from Wisconsin, who’s visited Saskatoon before. He liked hanging out here earlier in the summer, but knew how small the place is, and what its limitations were, etc. He was asking me whether it would be possible to move to Saskatoon to teach (i.e., whether a U.S. citizen would just be able to do that without dealing with any sort of immigration hurdles). When I told him how much the cost of living has risen in Saskatoon, he looked really puzzled and asked “WHY?”

(That question remains unanswered…)

; )

I completely mis-read that. I thought you were considering removing the weekly average data point altogether; I now understand that you’re just talking about getting rid of the one in the background. This makes much more sense to me, as long as you continue to show it for the current calendar year.

So I change my vote, in case that matters.

I do intend to get to my “closer look” which will include those graphs by the end of the week. I’ve got the graphics prepared but I’m buried pretty deep in other work, at least through tomorrow. Thanks very much.

And I think year end graphs of median and 6 week averages in the month/year in review, separate from the weekly average would be nice.

I’ve also been to the erindale McD’s. The last two times we went, we had to wait over half an hour for food, and both times the staff were completely unconcerned about any of the customers in the building. I’m imagining their manager feels much the same as my poor mother. I don’t think being able to hire 15 year olds (which employers have been able to do since at least 15 years ago when I got my first job at 15 y/o anyways) is going to fix these problems. The employers can’t really be blamed at this point, and the kids don’t care if you blame them, so what should happen here??

My vote is yes. It would eliminate much “busyness”, and IMHO the weekly data is far too variable to be of any practical use. It is interesting, but not useful.

Love the overlaid graphs, btw.

I’m happy I listened to their predictions of June and July 2008 which predicted how prices and real estate in Saskatoon had no where to go but up!

I remember some one else pointed out months ago on a post, and consistent with my experience, half of the MLS listings I looked at also had a saskhouses sign in the corner of their garage from an earlier failed attempt!

At least when they were hyping Saskatoon, I knew it was time to move to Regina!

In general, I find every where in western Canada, save for Calgary, to have quite good service, and maybe because of the labour shortage, have recently found Saskatoon workers have become less helpful and less skilled at pretty much every job locally. Regina similar case.

Always amazed in Winnipeg, or even Vancouver, to find a helpful, polite and Interested! sales person actually older than myself.

Then again, maybe Calgary’s extremely young service industry speaks to the continual extreme shortage of labour and abundance of higher paid jobs for any one with any sort of qualification!

I honestly wonder where this will lead. Will employers have to pay more and raise prices? Will restaurants and stores have to reduce hours? Already the drive thru lane at the Preston Crossing Burger King is closed over the noon hour at times.

Even though I just bought a home in Saskatoon, I hope housing prices or rents go down so that we can get more entry-level workers who can afford to live here.

Examples: Erindale McDonalds – I don’t know who owns this shitshow, pardon the language, but I challenge anyone to walk in their, not find the kids horsing around and garbage all over the tables. Hats on sideways, dropping f-bombs in earshot of the customer, shirts untucked, making out with boyfriend/girlfriends, wearing lululemon pants. When I worked there it was a privilege and you worked your tail off.

Pizza – 3 places, Dominos, TJs, and Family – ridiculous delivery times (45mins to 1.25 hours), wrong product delivered, call to speak with manager and they basically tell you to go somewhere else.

Extra Foods in Briarwood – fruit flies and rotting spots on tomatoes, mold on at least 10 different pints of blueberries. I ask the cashier why this is so, as 4 different lines are empty and workers standing around. The answer, as it seems to be with all employers – “We’re busy”

Apparently if you are busyt nowadays you are permitted to be incompetent. Sorry for the rant, but I do fear for our “next generation”. I hear way to many stories of moomy and daddy being prominent business owners/politicians and marks being changed at the high school level. I see these kids cry when they are given the marks they were in university. And very few have any sort of regard for appearance for work ethic. I hope these kids all lose their jobs, think about their actions for a while, and then find new ones and return with a changed attitude.

Glad you had a nice trip.

I have to say that I’m not sure where you guys get to in Saskatoon that you meet all of these assholes. I get in and out of a lot of places and generally meet some nice people almost every day. I’d agree that “service” isn’t always stellar in retail outlets but I find it’s similar wherever I go. I guess I have low expectations of “clerks” who are working for minimum wage and rarely encounter someone who’s actually rude.

Dan,

“i’d prefer to have it continue to the right side to watch the linear trend rather than artificially split by year”

I would too but I’m limited to 500 pixels of width. The graphs are pretty much impossible to read without a click though with one year of data on them.

“for the record, i actually find alberta people more friendly”

Give them a little time to get to know you.

from bookrat

i agree, actually a good reason to keep graphs the way you have Norm, the instant year over year comparison will be nice after a few months when a trend develops, might finally convince some delusional condo sellers to get motivated, their crazy expectations a big part of the reason I moved to alberta, and most of the places I looked at are still on the market, or equivalent, at lesser price

mass transit/LRT sure is a nice option

i’d say the friendliest places i’ve been service wise are north dakota and montana which have similar resources to us and montana was rid of their debt over a decade ago

for the record, i actually find alberta people more friendly