Saskatoon real estate: Week in review (January 12-16 2009)
The Saskatoon real estate market continued to show promising signs of life as the holiday season got further behind us and people continued to get back to the business of life. A total of 50 residential properties were reported as firmly sold this week including 48 single-family houses and condominiums, an increase of 7 homes from last week, and just 3 fewer than the same week last year. Just three weeks into the new year the sales line on our graph does seem to be mirroring last year’s sales activity.
A total of 93 Saskatoon houses and condos were added to the MLS system this week, up from 73 during the same week last year, but down significantly compared to last week when 134 new listings were offered for sale. Additionally, 17 of the 28 properties that were canceled or withdrawn from the system made another appearance, re-introduced as a new listing. Still, the total residential listing inventory managed to remain fairly flat finishing the week at 1,191 units, up just three from the week before. Of course, total active listings continue to be the “800-pound gorilla in the room” as the inventory hovers at levels approximately three times higher than it was at this time last year. While real estate sales activity looks promising in comparison to last year, listing numbers are definitely up (249 houses and condos listed year to date compared to 207 for the same period last year), and given the high inventory levels at the start of the year, this will continue be a concern for some, primarily sellers and seller’s agents.
Click the image for a larger version of the graph.
The average selling price of the Saskatoon homes that traded this week came in lower, falling from $284,563 last week to finish at $278,301. The six-week average increased slightly over the previous week moving from $268,110 to $270,116 and managed to maintain a gain of $14,500 compared to the same week last year when it reached nearly $255,600. The four-week median price took a larger jump to $265,000, up about $5,000 from the previous week and about $9,000 higher than the same week last year. The latter two measures appear to be headed for slightly higher ground as some of December’s lackluster sales weeks get shaken out of the equation.
Click the image for a larger version of the graph.
Just 46 price changes were recorded in the residential category this week, and of course, most of the 17 properties that were canceled and re-listed came back on the system at a lower price. Saskatoon home sellers met a more congenial home buyer over the past seven days as 6 sellers (12.5%) managed to get their full asking price and the average underbid came in lower at just $13,134 compared to $16,405 the week before. A full 62% of buyers signed a deal within $10K of the asking price, compared to just 37% the week before. Naturally, this affected all of the larger “discount” categories. The $10,001-$15,000 discount range fell to just 17% from 32%. The $15,001-$20,000 and the $20,001-$25,000 dropped by nearly half to 4% and 6% respectively while the percentage of sellers who gave up more than $25K fell from 14% to 11%.
See a Google map displaying the boundaries of Saskatoon real estate “areas” here
Data collection and calculation for our statistical reports
I’m always happy to answer your Saskatoon real estate questions. All of my contact info is here. Please feel free to call or email.
Norm Fisher
Royal LePage Saskatoon Real Estate
170 comments so far. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Norm, two questions:
1) Is River Landing dead?
2) How do you see the downtown condo market shaking out. It looks like a lot of inventory.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Yeah, what is happening with River Landing: wasn’t January 15th their deadline to make the final payment on the land?
The Saskatchewan Skyscraper forum is full of rumors, but there’s nothing new posted.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:12 PM
lbird and jrochest,
I heard this week, from a commercial real estate source that the River Landing project will not move forward due to financing issues. The person who told me this has been fairly reliable in the past but I can’t be certain as to whether or not this is true. My best recollection from a SP story that ran a few weeks back was that the land had to be paid for by January 19 (Monday). I expect we will hear something in the news on Monday either way.
“How do you see the downtown condo market shaking out. It looks like a lot of inventory.”
As excited as I have been about this project and all that would come with it, we may already have enough $350,000 condo inventory to keep us for awhile.
I’m sure the developers of the King George and the Luxe, and the resellers at 2nd Avenue Lofts will be relieved at not having to compete with River Landing if this rumour is in fact true.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Norm, I can’t say as this comes as a surprise. It’ll be interesting to see how he spins his previous comments…
Lake Placid CEO Michael Lobsinger is planning the costliest private sector project in Saskatoon’s recent history. He won’t say how he plans to finance the hotel-residential-office-retail project, but doesn’t expect any obstacles.
“I’ll finance it my own way and that’s none of anybody’s business,” he said. “I’m very optimistic or I wouldn’t have spent $3 million to $4 million already just on plans and getting as far as I have.”
http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/story.html?id=71a55b38-1f44-4a1a-a5d4-b65463ab7ed7
Star Phoenix – October 17, 2008
I agree that this could benefit the other downtown condo developers, but I don’t think it’s going to help resellers at 2nd Avenue Lofts.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Jason,
If I’ve learned anything over the past couple of years it’s that I’m better off not taking much of what I hear too seriously. I don’t think it was three weeks ago that they pulled an excavation permit on that land. I mean, if this is true, what was up with that?
Captcha: windup greenback
April 20th, 2009 at 3:12 PM
I have to admit sales are much stronger than I expected. Unless listings go dramatically down, I still expect some further price declines, but another 15% down from June may excessive.
I wonder if additional listings can be attributed to vacant speculation condos and houses being put back on the market, if the high sales numbers includes some wanna-be-speculators trying to buy now, so they aren’t “sorry” later on
April 20th, 2009 at 3:13 PM
It’ll be interesting to see what happens on Monday.
With respect to Norm (who has one up in the sidebar) I don’t think the 2nd Avenue lofts are going like hotcakes, exactly: there’s a couple up for rent on Kijiji. They’re nice, but 1500 or 1600 a month is a little high for a rental, and of course it’s well under carrying cost to purchase.
Apropo of nothing, rents seem to be easing, quite a bit: just a glance at the listings on Kijiji suggest that it’s about 700 a month for a one, and just under a grand for a two. There are still ads from people looking for a place, but fewer of them — and lots of them are parents of small children or people with dogs. The days of the 1,000 dollar basement suite seem to be gone. (Thank God).
April 20th, 2009 at 3:13 PM
jrochest,
The price list on their website shows 103 of 132 units as sold. Note though that I have unit 408 for sale (it still appears on their list) so their list is out of date. I don’t think that the developer has much left there really.
Most of the people who bought there contracted not to sell before January 1 of 2009, or before the developer had sold all of their units. There are only two resales there right now but I expect we’ll see more before too long.
I expect that there will be more investors looking to get out than to get in. Rent? I will also be glad to see them ease up a bit. I was speaking to the property manager at Lakeshore Estates (310 Stillwater) this week and she tells me that they are getting $950 a month quite easily. She says they’ll get 50-60 calls when they advertise one. These units are mostly under 900 square feet and nothing really special about them. $1500-1600 might be high for the 2nd Avenue Lofts but they’ve got to fetch $1400, I’d think. Underground parking, much roomier, concrete construction.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Renters take heart!
I was served notice of a rent increase a couple weeks back. it suprised me a bit, because it came two months after it could have (i.e. the day after the last rent increse took effect). Plus, it came after the 6-month notice rule took effect; I’d've thought it would be served before that. Finally, with the economy cooling off I thought maybe i wouldn’t get an increase for a while. Anyway, I was wrong.
On Friday I get a letter from BWalk stating that the rental increase has been cancelled!
Whenever I’ve gotten a rental increase in the past it comes with a list of reasons (market conditions, increased utility costs, higher grounds and building maintinence costs, etc.). They gave no reason for the cancellation, just a “sorry for any inconvinience it may have caused.” I’m not complaining though
April 20th, 2009 at 3:14 PM
those lakeshore things had 2 or 3 bedrooms those, an awkward loft with one big open bedroom, is a tough sell, as you need a big supply of single, or childless couples with lots of money, who are okay with a view of the bus mall…
…oh yeah the bus mall, suddenly saskatoon’s seedy under belly doesn’t seem so far away
April 20th, 2009 at 3:15 PM
those lakeshore things had 2 or 3 bedrooms those, an awkward loft with one big open bedroom, is a tough sell, as you need a big supply of single, or childless couples with lots of money, who are okay with a view of the bus mall…
…oh yeah the bus mall, suddenly saskatoon’s seedy under belly doesn’t seem so far away
April 20th, 2009 at 3:15 PM
guy_in_regina,
My how things can change. You should get a group of tenants together and write a letter requesting a decrease. Glad to hear your good news. Boardwalk doesn’t really need the cash.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:15 PM
problem is hip, young, uptown guys like me move to Alberta – hipper still would be to move to Vancouver, especially with rent in Saskatoon spiralling upwards, and Vancouvers suburbs Saskatoon sized, but 1 hour way from a big, metropolitan city
couldn’t afford to be hip in saskatoon
lots of hip alternatives near whyte ave
Or save on rent, and move to Edmonton, metropolitan, better university, Whyte, NHL, Muttart, 2 hours to mountains etc
April 20th, 2009 at 3:16 PM
See ya Dan! Best wishes.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:16 PM
already live in e town, have for a few months
would move back here, but not taking a pay cut unless housing gets a heck of a lot cheaper
dare to dream though
April 20th, 2009 at 3:16 PM
Well, I’m the 2nd Ave Lofts target demographic: I don’t know about hip, but I’m trendy and prone to purchases of overpriced mid-century modern furniture and good clothing, fersure. And I’m single, no kids.
I’d merrily live in a loft almost anywhere else: Toronto or Vancouver, for example. But here, 300K will buy a house: I don’t need to buy a loft.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Norm, in my mind that project was DOA when they announced the developer was from Calgary. Even if they are to go ahead and complete it, they run the risk of buyers bailing on their deposits if condo values drop substantially.
2nd Avenue Lofts must have some record for the longest condo project under construction. The King George is going to be completed before they’re finished! How many “hip”, “young” adults can afford $300k-$400k for a 1-bedroom condo anyway? Roomier, yes. Good utilization of space, no. Do they allow pets? If so, they might get the $1,400. Not sure I’d want to live in a building with 200+ cats…
April 20th, 2009 at 3:17 PM
guy_in_regina,
Good to hear they cancelled that increase. They can’t be pulling that crap in 2009! My husband and I’s rent (2 bdm apt) is going up to $900 come Feb. 1st, luckily we’ll be out after only paying for 2 months… I had hoped that us moving out would put the owner in a pickle therefore rent would need to be lowered to attract their next tenant – but listening to what Norm said about a similar apartment complex I’m probably just wishful thinking. I still do feel bad for all those renters out there, however things should start balancing as more and more properties turn into rentals. (ie. the $1000/mo deluxe basement suite trend)
Captcha: frankly GOSSIP
April 20th, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Hey, if you’re willing to put up with a few conditions, you can get a great rental rate in Vancouver:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rnr/964514051.html
April 20th, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Pungo,
Lol. That is too much. It has to be a gag. Sounds more like a prison that a basement suite. I could probably give up my “lascivious deviant sexual behaviors” but an ID bracelet? If this is for real someone needs to rescue this guy’s family.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:18 PM
What killed it for me was this one:
“WAKE-UP: Wake up will be at 5:30am each morning. All ceiling lights in the suite will be turned on automatically.”
I hope that the job I took (as part of my ‘must be employed’ clause) doesn’t require me to work nights!
April 20th, 2009 at 3:22 PM
That’s the funniest (scariest?) thing I’ve read since the $500k dog house.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:22 PM
I was curious what the current rental situation is like in Saskatoon (housing and apartment or condominium). Have rent rates plateaued (or is there a slight increase or decrease), is there a lot of selection to choose from, are there more private (owner-owned) units and are any incentives starting to be offered? Lastly, do people see rental rates increasing or decreasing over the course of the year?
April 20th, 2009 at 3:23 PM
I have a friend in Saskatoon living in one of Realstar’s properties and they are still getting quarterly rent increases. His last lease renewal (he is on a month to month lease agreement) he asked if there was a chance that rents might drop at all over the coming year, and he was told flat out, that no, this would not be the case as rental locations are still very limited. I don’t imagine things re going to improve much as far as vacancy rates go either, as I just read on that the mayor of Saskatoon just upped the fee for registering a basement suites from the current rate of $250 per household to $1200.
Nice to see the city of Saskatoon once again looking out for the little guy! Of course, guys like Atchison and Gormley probably see situations like last summer where families were forced to live out in campgrounds as a surefire sign that the city was booming. Afer all, homelessness is a sign of economic success, right? Maybe by trying to make basement suites as unattractive as possible, thereby limiting accomodations again, you guys can have a repeat of the campground situation and you can once again walk around all puffed up at how booming your city is.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Frustrated,
It may surprise you to learn that the Mayor does not have authority to “up fees.” These kinds of changes are done through the authority of city council. The mayor doesn’t even vote on them unless there happens to be a tie vote with councillors.
It would be nice if you could direct us to what you read as it is definitely in conflict with information that the city is putting out on their website. According to the site, the CofS implemented a program beginning January 1 2008 which would allow for rebates on building, plumbing and development permits required to construct a suite. Those seeking to legalize an existing suite can qualify for a rebate on a portion of the “Legalizing and Existing Suite Occupancy Permit” fee through 2011.
All of the city’s housing initiatives are here.
http://www.city.saskatoon.sk.ca/org/city_planning/affordable_housing/incentives.asp
Would love to see what you have on this. Thanks.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Hi Norm,
The January 15th issue of the Star Phoenix had an article re: the fee increases. I found the article while googling for updated info on the River Landing project.
“At the same meeting that Mayor Don Atchison gave councillors and city administrators a collective pat on the back for their forward-thinking housing plan, council jacked up the fee for legalizing suites to $1,200 from $250.”
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/Life/hike+city+legalize+suites+adds+shortage/1178651/story.html
April 20th, 2009 at 3:24 PM
This is how rumors get started.
“I heard this week, from a commercial real estate source that the River Landing project will not move forward due to financing issues”. Not True!!
“River Landing by Lake Placid is moving forward and has had an overwhelming success with sales”. Construction apprently will begin this spring. Can’t Wait.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:25 PM
In regards to the Lake Placid deal, we haven’t heard anything from the Lake Placid CEO in months. He just seems awfully quiet if everything is good to go to an anxious public. Personally I don’t see anyway for him to get financing, if Vancouver couldn’t get it for the bloody Olympics then how could he expect to? It’s really too bad, I loved the project and thought it would do a lot for our aging downtown.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Well, Norm didn’t say he *knew* anything: he reported a rumor. And a rumor is a rumor. That and 2.50 will get you a Venti at Starbucks.
That said, it will be interesting to see if Lake Placid makes the payment on Monday. That will be fact, and not rumor.
That and 2.50 will get you a Venti at Starbucks, too.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:25 PM
In poking around on the Star-Phoenix website, I came across a link to this story published in the Calgary Herald.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/columnists/Saskaboom+downtown/1187517/story.html
Looks like the pumping continues: “Hey! Even if Calgary’s RE market is crashing, Saskatoon’s Downtown is going to the Moon and Beyond!”
*sigh*. Brace yourselves for another flood of desperate idiots, people. I automatically discount any writer who uses the words “Saskaboom” and “Paris of the Prairies” let alone both in the same article.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Frustrated,
Thank you for the article. That’s too bad. Seems over the past two years that council has been back and forth on a number of issues.
Rbank,
“This is how rumors get started.”
Oh no! With due respect, I think you’ve taken some liberties with what I said. The comment you quoted was followed by a disclaimer that was three times as long. I think I was pretty clear that I was uncertain about whether or not it was correct. I guess we’ll know tomorrow, and like you, I am certainly hoping for good news.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:29 PM
jrochest how dare you question Saskatoon’s over valued real estate based on fundamentals!
By questioning “Saskaboom” you’ve now become a Saskawhiner, and Gormley will taunt you until you concede that Saskatoon is great, and move to Alberta, like everyone else who leaves for higher wages, cheaper housing and less dilusional citizenry.
Nothing says “boom” like a multi-million dollar down town condo project getting cancelled. Sure, it’s the developer’s fault, but the media talked ad nauseum about it for years and years and year. That’s where the hype comes from. Repeat any announcements, even plans, again, and again, and again, and again, until we’re beaten into submission. And forget about it when it’s cancelled. Think a cancelled condo project gets 4 years of repeated media coverage.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:29 PM
I don’t understand what the major opposition is to that article in the Calgary Herald. The writer comes from an art, architecture, and urban culture background and he’s giving some high praise to your city. Why does this anger you guys? I would think you would be pleased that someone saw beauty in your city’s downtown area and wanted to share that with residents of another city.
I know the use of Saskaboom and Paris on the Prairies has recently been used by people to pump up the Saskatoon real estate market, but its not like this guy had taken the same tone. I think you guys are getting a little over zealous in waiting for a market correction. IMHO, just enjoy the praise and compliments of the city you live in.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:31 PM
The praise for downtown is lovely.
The conspicuous mention of every conversion and development in the downtown area, not so much
.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Cory,
I also found it interesting that the writer managed to use the word “boom” nine times in that story. I think it’s that kind of thing that makes people think it’s another propaganda piece to promote Saskatoon as a place that is open for exploitation.
The last round of speculation has left wounds which we can hardly begin to assess at this early stage. Millions of dollars hauled away and Saskatoon people left to clean up the mess. Many people already owing more on their home than they’re worth. Those who were least able to afford it now paying twice the rent they were just two years ago. Many forced to move away from their home because they couldn’t afford to live here any longer.
Some like to think that if we just “think positive” and don’t speak about the negative that all will be well. You can’t blame some of the people for having an attitude.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Is Saskatoon like Paris because both inner cities are dirty?
April 20th, 2009 at 3:40 PM
…and by the way, saying that the Rumley “sold out quickly” is slightly stretching the truth. According to the MLS there are still “8 units left.” The first listing appears to have been offered MLS in early August 2007. I mean, what is the problem with just telling the truth about this. Given that the units are a half million to a million dollars wouldn’t that have sounded pretty impressive? I guess it wouldn’t have been quite ‘boomish” enough.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:45 PM
jrochest
Fair enough, I did not intend to sound antogonistic, I just read it differently than you did and knowing none of the history behind the developments mentioned probably made it seem different to me.
Norm,
Thanks, I now understand the reaction’s to the article much better. As I said above, I don’t know all of the history involved here and when I read the article I didn’t see any outright motives the writer would have for giving such an unbalanced opinion to the piece. Unless he owns several spec homes in Saskatoon I could not see of any reason why he would just try to artifically pump up Saskatoon. However, I was missing the exploitation angle which I understand burned many in this run up of prices over the past several years. Anyway, thanks for helping me understand the reaction better and hopefully I did not offend.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:46 PM
is kind of suspect when all the predictions these days that support saskatoon use words like “sask a boom” and are from the local home builders, realtors’ association, mayor, premier, etc.
and the now detractors seem to be national and international bankers and news agencies
April 20th, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Norm, I really agree with your second last comment. It’s almost become taboo in this city to be a realist; and it seems if you’re not an absolute optimist then you’re a pessimist (there really doesn’t seem to be any middle ground).
April 20th, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Cory,
No offense taken. It was a fair question.
To be clear, I’m not suggesting that I understand the motives of anyone involved in the story, just that the “boom” thing comes off as terribly old and a little bit desperate. I expect that it’s probably more a case of a reporter that doesn’t really have a clue what’s going on here.
I did an interview a few weeks ago for my company’s quarterly price survey. Almost keeled over when I received the release last week. It was so full of sunshine it was unbelievable. I sent it back for more work.
“Saskaboom” has got so much positive media around the world over the past two years that many still think things are moving right along and it’s probably an easy story to sell in a fairly troubled time. I’m still holding my breath.
We do have a lot going for us but I expect we’ll be faced with our share of problems over the next couple of years. The “boom” is certainly behind us for the time being.
Jason,
I’ve been meeting a few people lately who are looking at selling for less than they paid. One couple I met with last weekend paid $350 a year ago. They bought the house from an out of province investor who bought it new and probably sold it and a couple of other properties for a big profit. Changing circumstances within their family is motivating a move. The house is worth about $330,000 today. Tell these people that we’re experiencing a boom.
Do I think that’s the end of the world? No. Neither do they. It could definitely be a helluva a lot worse, and it very likely will be. I don’t know why it’s so uncool to talk about it.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Norm, yes, and what’s scary is that after an additional $20k-$30k in discounts, real estate fees and closing costs they could easily be $35-$50k underwater. And unlike the recent “Saskaboom” – where everyone was gambling with someone else’s money – this isn’t monopoly money we’re playing with now; these losses are in fact quite real (and not just on paper). And unlike the US, there’s no “jingle mail” for those that are looking for an easy exit.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:52 PM
If the river landing project falls through maybe we could build a replica Eiffel Tower. Then the comparisons may be more accurate.
Go Cards!!
PS. I don’t understand why people don’t think Saskatoon is still booming. I can still get a minimum wage job whenever I want one!
PPS look up sarcasm before replying
April 20th, 2009 at 3:52 PM
We got a lot in Willowgrove in the last city lot draw, and considered ourselves lucky, as the draw had many more applicants than lots available. For the next draw coming up, they aren’t even expecting to sell out. No surprise there, but I see even on our cresent (Paton), it looks like a good third of the lots were turned back in and are up for sale again. Lots of people backed out. The city has a requirement to build on these lots within two years. I hear they are now looking at “options” to change this requirement.
I think new housing starts are definitely going to take a dive. Strangely my general contractor is still saying that construction costs are on the rise…
April 20th, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Brian S,
Hey we’re on Paton too! Are you for sure going ahead with building then? (I recall you considering paying the penalty fee to surrender the lot) My builder has always maintained prices will go up this year – they kid themselves more than anyone else! There are a few houses going up near ours, but by far ours is the furthest along. Paton streets may be desolate for quite some time yet! I bet there will be several lots from the previous draw back up for grabs. This upcoming lot draw won’t even be CLOSE to selling out, I suspect the city may have to lower their prices too.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Hi Heather,
Yes, we’re going to build for sure, but we’re not really under any pressure. It would be nice to be in sooner rather than later, but if building costs are going to fall it might be worthwhile to hold off.
You can download the map of the lots for sale here:
http://www.saskatoon.ca/org/land/residential/lot_draws/Willowgrove_Phase_6_5_4_Lot_Draw_Maps.pdf
There’s tons on Paton that are back up for sale again.
Not sure that the city would ever lower the price on lots… its not like they HAVE to sell them.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Heather,
“Paton streets may be desolate for quite some time yet!”
It will be like living on an acreage.
It looks like “Phase 6″ Willowgrove is up for draw on January 28. Here’s a map of t which also includes the returns from Phases 4 and 5. Pretty good selection.
http://www.city.saskatoon.sk.ca/org/land/residential/lot_draws/Willowgrove_Phase_6_5_4_Lot_Draw_Maps.pdf
April 20th, 2009 at 3:54 PM
About Laura’s question about effloresence and spalling on the last post, and to anyone who owns or will own their own place, how do your downspouts drain? Do you have them extended at least 6 feet from your foundation, or do they drain right by your foundation walls? This is something we all hear about ad nauseum, but it’s hugely important! Basements are not boats, and it makes me very sad to see homes, especially the older ones, being mistreated like that. Wet soil combined with freeze-thaws will heave, and that WILL cause cracks, bulging, and eventually foundation failure, even in new homes with weeping tile, since the freezing happens higher in the soil, before the moisture ever gets down to weeping tile level. Similarly, the concrete will get wet at a level above the weeping tile (especially if it wasn’t treated with rigid insulation or a water-proofing membrane like some of the newest homes), causing spalling and efflorescence. Go tour an older house with poor downspouts and you’ll probably find the worst foundation issues near where they discharge.
How to fix it? Get out your shovels! First of all, to Laura, I’d guess that since you’re noticing that the moisture is worse right now, it might have something to do with the thaw, so you (any everyone, really) should get out there in this warm weather and shovel the snow well away from your foundation walls (I’d recommend at clearing out at least a 6 foot perimeter, and tossing the snow as far as you can). A couple hours of work every winter will make a big difference to the longevity of your foundation. Also, there are lots of ways to extend your downspouts without creating an obstacle (clip up or roll-out styles), but my favourite would be to dig a trench for a pipe out to a french drain. Lastly, Norm’s suggestion of a sump-pump is a good one to help dry out the soil below your foundation floor level. They are inexpensive flood-insurance for a finished space (the best ones cost about $250) and can installed by a skilled DIYer. However, unless you’ve got a naturally high water table in your area, preventing the surface water from getting down there in the first place is probably your best (and least expensive) fix. A dehumidifier in any subterranean space is also a good idea to prevent mildew. Good luck!
April 21st, 2009 at 9:51 AM
With regards to Lake Placid:
It takes time to amalgamate 5 pieces of property, and register title. Lake Placid is moving forward, and thanks all the supporters.
The Lake Placid River Landing Village will be a centre piece for the new Saskatchewan; and for the very fortunate it will be a place to call home.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:51 AM
“The Lake Placid River Landing Village will be a centre piece for the new Saskatchewan”
The entire city of Regina, legislature, down town development, Wascana Park, and Saskatchewan’s retail hub (Victoria Avenue East) all beg to differ.
Saskatoon is one of two nearly equal sized cities in the province. Neither is dominant, or the “center”.
Regina’s new mutli-BILLIION dollar oil upgrader expansion, and inland shipping port, are the two largest urban projects currently planned for the province. The shipping hub is arguably the more important piece in making anything the “center”
No catch phrases or advertising agenda allowed here.
That’s as bad as Toronto Condo’s unsolicited ad.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:52 AM
just read about the shooting on carter way during a home invasion in the west side with shooting
not really what is considered west side though,
probably a neighbourhood norm would tell buyers it’s safe to move to, far west end, lot of retired folks
just goes to show you crime has no borders in saskatoon
close to hampton village too, easy walk
makes its safety suspect
anyone can just break in demand money and shoot you
2 nd day in a row of a saskatoon shooting
just lucky this was just some guys leg
versus that poor little girl shot in the head on the weekend
April 21st, 2009 at 9:53 AM
That will be great news if Lake Placid continues forward, although I can’t help but think that with 400-500+ luxury condominiums due to be completed we’re already well past the saturation point for this market. And there has (as yet) been no public confirmation of financing, which has been the death knell for numerous wide-open, gaping pits and half-completed skyscrapers doting the skyline of cities like Calgary, Victoria and Vancouver.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:53 AM
Dan, yes, crime has no borders, but certain areas are more prone than others. With respect to the home invasion, we don’t know the specifics, but it’s not unthinkable that there may be more background to this story than at first glance. As for the second unfortunate incident, clearly there were some domestic issues involved.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:53 AM
“The entire city of Regina, legislature, down town development, Wascana Park, and Saskatchewan’s retail hub (Victoria Avenue East) all beg to differ.”
First of all, “Saskatchewan’s retail hub?” Whatever, pal. I guess you haven’t heard of eighth street, Midtown Plaza or Preston Crossing.
To make a claim like “the entire city of Regina” begs to differ shows how out of touch you are. Not only does Saskatoon continue to widen its lead the city has in terms of population, but it a simple search for economic indicators from 2008 such as building permit values or housing starts to see that Saskatoon has indeed taken over as the centre of the province.
As much as you want to believe that your new bus depot or expanded upgrader will pull Regina even with Saskatoon, it’s simply not going to happen.
Besides, Mr. Lobsinger merely said that River Landing would be “a” (as in “one”) centrepiece for a “new” Saskatchewan. I’ve yet to see one development or proposed development in Regina that comes close to what Lake Placid is working on for Saskatoon.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:55 AM
RLobsinger,
If that is your real name.
That’s great news if you are the real deal. Everyone is excited about seeing this project move forward. I agree that it appears to be a very special development and that it would be great for the city.
Jason,
“can’t help but think that with 400-500+ luxury condominiums due to be completed we’re already well past the saturation point for this market.”
There does seems to be a lot on the go in the $400+ range, but I have to say that if there is a market, I think the development on the river’s edge probably wins.
Dallas,
Generally, Nick seems to be pretty keen on all places that don’t start with s-a-s-k-a-t-o-o-n. I’ve heard him sing praises to most places west of here but I’m blown away to hear him speak of Regina in this way. What gives with you Nick? Why do you despise Saskatoon so much? I would have thought that Regina could have easily earned your scorn as well as Saskatoon.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Dallas, Vic East in Regina and surrounding area is far bigger than Preston Crossing and Stone bridge.
8 th gives is a run for its money, but is spread out, and has lost retailers to further out burbs.
Midtown is a nicer mall than Regina has, but only one mall.
Some highlights of Regina’s Vic East Area:
Best Buy, Home Depot, Rona (a big new one), Chili’s, Applebee’s, East Side Mario’s, Mongolie Grill, a couple high end restaurants, and dozens of others, Future Shop, Visions, 2 Tim Hortons, a half dozen hotels, new Moxie’s, A Mall (Vic Square) with Bootlegger, Clothing, Jewelry etc, Sport Check, a half dozen grocery stores, Petland, Petsmart, Rose’s Pets, Home Sense, Home Outfitters, Linen N Things, A few kitchen outlet stores, Michael’s, London Drugs, Peavy Mart, Princess Auto, New Earl’s, Pubs/Sports Bars, Costco, Kal Tire, A few high end men’s/women’s clothing shops, Nevada Bobs superstore, more jewelry, craft, clothing, shoe, sports etc stores, a not closed down Ashley Furniture (unlike Saskatoon’s) and a concentration of matress stores for some reason. Did I mention Best Buy.
As well as the regulars:
Zellers, Walmart, Canadian Tire, Winners, Marks Work Wearhouse, Superstore
So really more than Preston Crossing and Stonebridge combined. If you don’t believe me, just drive down Vic East one day. Not sure if Preston/Stone Bridge has ONE store that Regina doesn’t duplicate in it’s east end alone.
With Chili’s, Applebee’s, Best Buy etc. the stores/restaurants Saskatoon doesn’t have are worth the trip alone!
And Dallas, the new bus depot is not what I’m touting, it’s the new train/container transport hub being built by Regina’s aiport that has already attracted hundreds of millions of investment.
Oh, and housing in Regina isn’t falling like Saskatoon, and the average wage continues to exceed that in Saskatoon. About all Saskatoon is gaining on Regina these days is crime!
And Regina’s east end has a lot of big, nice, high end condos going up, with no rumours of being cancelled. So if you think condos are a bigger deal than Regina being the base of the provincial government, than the east end has got that too. Oh, and Regina has actual sky scraping banks down town.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Saskatoon is an average place Norm, completely okay with it. Doesn’t make sense a house there was $70,000 higher on average this spring. Especially when better jobs exist in Regina.
People in Regina are pretty accepting of Regina as an average sized, prairie city. Not delusions of “Paris of the Prairies here”, yet with the better restaurant scene, more financial/corporate stuff down town, and provincial museum, CFL team, science center and IMAX, Regina really seems like more of a big league city. Just with a few less people.
I can accept Regina as a still relatively affordable place to live. Still costs a bit too much. But no Saskatoon delusions of housing, or culture, being equivalent to say: Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver etc.
Saskatoon has kind of a Toronto west attitude.
Shown by a developer, and Dallas, thinking a new condo will be the center piece of the entire province.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:56 AM
“Whatever, pal. I guess you haven’t heard of eighth street, Midtown Plaza or Preston Crossing.”
Not to get involved in this Regina vs. Saskatoon BS, but, “Midtown Plaza”! That’s too funny.
Cornwall Centre, pal.
I’m not all upitty on Regina (I think Saskatoon has been the “centre” of the Province for a quite a long time), but I think Vic East/Quance is by far the largest concentration of big box stores in the Province; not that I think that’s necessarily a good thing – I actually avoid that part of town like the plauge.
Still, I’d say that strip along Quance comprises *at least* 3 Preston Crossings.
I do prefer Regina’s downtown over S’toon’s. I hope this downtown plan goes ahead:
http://www.regina.ca/Page976.aspx
April 21st, 2009 at 9:57 AM
I just posted this on the Skyscraper forum, too: did Lake Placid make their payment today?
April 21st, 2009 at 9:57 AM
2 cents on Regina vs Saskatoon – where’s the children’s hospital coming, folks? I’m a mom – I would stay in saskatoon over regina for that reason alone.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:58 AM
jrochest,
“did Lake Placid make their payment today?”
Apparently not. A poster claiming to be “RLobsinger” posted this a little further up the thread:
“With regards to Lake Placid:
It takes time to amalgamate 5 pieces of property, and register title. Lake Placid is moving forward, and thanks all the supporters.
The Lake Placid River Landing Village will be a centre piece for the new Saskatchewan; and for the very fortunate it will be a place to call home.”
This is consistent with news reports on Rawlco Radio and comments from the City of Saskatoon who said they expect the payment to be late. I understand that there is a provision in the agreement that allows for an interest adjustment in the event that the payment is not made by today.
On another topic: “City’s (Saskatoon) GDP growth to top nation again in 2009″
http://tinyurl.com/8gwst7
They’re saying that this would be the “third year in a row.”
April 21st, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Ringo,
I hear you. This is the lastest information I’ve received about the proposed Maternal and Children’s Hospital:
http://tinyurl.com/a9gnak
There may be more recent information available, but as far as I’ve heard they are anticipating it will be completed in 2012.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:12 AM
This is the first time in recorded human history that an Applebee’s has been mentioned as an example of positive urban development. I don’t think Saskatoon is the world’s greatest city, but until Regina gets anything half as nice as the riverbank I’ll be comfortable with Denny’s.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Nick,
So it’s not so much the city, as the people?
I’m going to be in Regina this weekend. It’s been a long time since I’ve looked around but I’ll try to hit some of the spots you’ve mentioned.
lbird,
“This is the first time in recorded human history that an Applebee’s has been mentioned as an example of positive urban development.”
Lol. Trish and I went into one once and ended up slipping out the back way before our order was taken, so I’ve never eaten at Applebee’s. We were actually in Niagara on a Friday night and everyplace else was completely packed. Two hour waits all over, except for Applebee’s. Ultimately we thought it best to wait.
guy_in_regina,
How ya doin’ pal?
April 21st, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Saskatoon does not yet have a children’s hospital, and while Applebee’s may not be a reason to move somewhere, Regina does have a lot of stores Saskatoon doesn’t, and restaurant. lbird, not sure a new restaurant hurts.
I also remember a recent study putting Regina as the top place to invest, ahead of number 2 Toronto and number 3 Saskatoon.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Ibird, hate to burst your bubble, but Regina has a Denny’s too, and it’s in the east end! on Victoria
Regina also has 2 Earl’s! for you chain fans
April 21st, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Norm,
If you’re coming to Regina this weekend I would not recommend the Applebee’s or Chili’s. I have lived in the east end of Regina very close to the area that Nick talked about and those two places are the lowest on most people’s places to go.
I have never lived in Saskatoon, only visited briefly and so I don’t have much to add to the Saskatoon side of the debate, but as a Regina resident I will say that our east end strip of stores is nice in that there are plenty of options, many of which are some larger chains that Saskatoon has. However, the city made several blunders in developing the area and as a result the traffic is absolutely atrocious and unmanageable on a weekend. Of course, take that with a grain of salt as a long time in traffic for most people here is 15 minutes.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Regina has a big casino in town too, don’t they?
Why’d Saskatoon put theirs way outside the city?
I say whoever gets an IKEA and a Hooters first wins.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:15 AM
“Regina also has 2 Earl’s! for you chain fans”
Our parrot is bigger.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Flames and Oilers and Islanders playing at Saskplace (or whatever the new name is) in the fall – any NHL teams coming to Regina soon?
April 21st, 2009 at 10:15 AM
RLobsinger is true to his word:
River Landing complex going ahead despite missed deadline
http://tinyurl.com/7kvfxf
Captcha: debt unplanted. You can’t make this stuff up.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:16 AM
No argument on design, Fiacco screwed up royally, the east end is not meant for a 5 minute zip in/out, Vic takes 10 minutes to travel 2 km. That said, has lots of stuff if you want to spend a half day.
And Best Buy is a pretty big, slick electronics store.
Don’t think any one thinks Chili’s is fine dining, but like Red Lobster, BP’s etc. it’s one of those ‘must have’s’ for big leaguedness.
And Applebees is pretty well known as well.
Before everyone in Saskatoon bashes Chili’s as class less, you have one on the way too.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Norm, since you’re stuck
down in Regina, you might as well take advantage of the one thing Regina undisputably does better than Saskatoon – restaurants, a short list of some of the best, in case you have down time:
-Downtown
*La Bodega, Albert St. near down town – tapas and after hours lounge, everyone seems to really like
(nothing like it in Saskatoon)
Bitten, Broad couple blocks north of Vic – deserts, drinks, small place, kind of like cooler Calories
*Crave, Vic Ave down town – old house, expensive but nice urban style restaurant for fancy dinner
Diplomat – Broad by Vic, Regina’s best, and Saskatchewan’s most expensive, steak house
Golf’s – Vic beside Roof Top Lounge, cheaper version of Dip, good steak, but affordable…sort of
Rooftop Lounge – Corner Vic and Broad, new, cooler set up, okay appy/booze, what Bayly’s should be before it turns into a sleazy dance bar (bayly’s that is, no dance here)
Memories – Vic just east of Broad, Regina’s snooty French restaurant (guaranteed to impress date)
Beer Brothers – large selection of bottled imports – on Scarth Street Mall just south of Cornwall
Good after dinner drinks
-Central
*Zest, in Science Center, between General and Dorms – also expensive, but good meal for $30, neat venue
Willows – on wascana lake, just north of broad bridge over lake, saskatchewan game/produce
Teppanyaki – on Vic just east of down town, like Samurai, but cheaper, faster and better show man ship
(japanese style grill, cook in front of you)
Neo Japanica, on Scarth I think – in old house, nice sit down Japanese
Other sushi places – on Scarth street beside O’Hanlon’s/Vic Park down town, on Broad,
on corner Vic/Arcola Miso (all you can eat)
Bushwackers – On Dewdney Bar Strip – Pub Food and Lots of Local Brews on Tap
-South
Skara – South Albert by Golden Mile
Brewsters – Albert South, Think Monday is cheap schooner beer night, grown up neighbourhood lounge/brew pub chain
-East
Applebee’s – just off Quance, so you can say you went
Chili’s – vic east/#1 highway by husky truck stop
Med Bistro – Vic East, another expensive sit down restaurant
Brewster’s – Vic East
Smitty’s – Vic East as is Denny’s in case ibird goes
[list not made for page, edited from email with buddies transferred to Regina for work]
As well Western/Houston/Triffon’s Pizza ALL are better than any Saskatoon pizza place
To the rest of the group, Regina is worth a weekend, go to a show in Regina’s Casino show lounge, hit up a few excellent restaurants and see the only Imax/Science Center/Best Buy/CFL team/Legislature in the province.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Cory,
“If you’re coming to Regina this weekend I would not recommend the Applebee’s or Chili’s.”
Shoot! Back to the drawing board.
Thanks.
Nick,
Thanks for the list. Eats are all looked after Friday night and we haven’t decided yet if we’ll stay over Saturday. A nice breakfast buffet recommendation would be great though. Our event is at Hotel Sask and that’s where we’ll be staying.
Crikey,
Thanks for the link. True that there would be no way to get a lender to hand over a cheque without a completed title.
“Captcha”
Some days it’s like it knows what’s on your mind.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Regina may have two Earl’s, but it was number two to Saskatoon in real GDP growth for 2008. Saskatoon’s economy grew by 5.4% to lead the nation while Regina captured the number two spot at 4.9%. Not bad Regina, not bad.
Oh, and by the way, apparently the Saskatoon boom is back on. Front page headline, “City Still Booming”
http://tinyurl.com/7kx5ae
and from the Leader Post
http://tinyurl.com/7velzt
April 21st, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Bank of Canada cuts rate to 1%; BOM has reduced its prime lending rate to 3%.
http://www.financialpost.com/news/story.html?id=1197505
April 21st, 2009 at 10:19 AM
I can’t believe two cities are grappling for supremecy using national chain stores/restaurants.
I have little doubt Regina has much to brag about, but Applebee’s, Best Buy, and TWO Earl’s are not what makes Regina, or any other place on earth special.
Quite the opposite, in fact.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Water Supply – it’s one of those ‘must have’s’ for big leaguedness.
Meewasin > Wascana
UofS > UofR
Closer to Northern lakes, Calgary, Edmonton
Less wind
Lower property taxes
Synchrotron
The only real advantage Regina has is being on the #1 Highway and being closer to the US. Retail changes all the time.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Charles,
“The only real advantage Regina has is being on the #1 Highway and being closer to the US.”
Don’t forget the Riders!
April 21st, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Being the seat of Provincial political power is something of a plus, IMO.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Change is inevitable. Growth is optional. *
We’re living in a time of tumultuous change.
A misinformed president declares a war. The value of homes – which were never supposed to fall – fell. The SEC can’t make Wall Street color between the lines and 700 billion dollars goes missing. A 50 billion-dollar Ponzi scheme is perpetrated by one of the most respected men on Wall Street. A governor tries to sell a seat in the Senate. I saw gasoline sell for a dollar a quart and watched General Motors become insolvent.
But I’m not worried. I was born in a briar patch.
Penny and I began our lives during the term of another president who wasn’t quite up to the job.
It’s 1976. Mortgage interest rates are 18 percent and jobs are scarce. If you see a line of cars at a gas station, get in it. Gas stations don’t always have gas. The middle-eastern boogeyman of that era, the Ayatollah Khomeini, brazenly invades a U.S. embassy and kidnaps 52 U.S. diplomats. Newscasters remind us nightly of our shame. When we send our best and brightest soldiers to rescue our diplomats, we crash two of our aircraft, eight soldiers die and we return home empty-handed. The Ayatollah holds us hostage for 444 days.
“Elected largely on his promise to never lie to the American people, Carter soon seemed out of place in the vastness of the presidency. Events conspired to further impede his progress: rising energy costs, high unemployment, Americans held hostage in Iran, Soviets in Afghanistan. A man of peace who took pride in bringing together age-old antagonists, Carter was finally viewed by his countrymen as lacking presidential stature.” – American Experience, PBS
And the whole time, it seems the only thing we needed was a head cheerleader with a more beautiful dream. Ronald Reagan took office with a sparkling smile. “Things are fine. Expand your business. All is well. Go out to dinner. Life is good.” And we believed him.
Economy rebounded, cold war ended, Mary Lou Retton vaulted a perfect 10 and the Berlin Wall came tumbling down.
Barack Obama has a good smile, too. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
Perhaps we’re being foolish. Maybe the right thing would be to hunker down and cover our heads with our hands. But did you ever notice how “hunker” sounds like clunker, junker, lunker and dunker? I prefer “dream,” as in team, gleam in the eye, beaming smile and cream of the crop.
“All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.” – T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
Hunker down or dream. It’s your call.
The 7 Steps to Hunkering Down:
1. Stay scared. Call it “street smart.”
2. Cultivate cynicism. Call it “straight talk.”
3. Praise pessimism. Call it a “reality check.”
4. Believe you are wiser than everyone else.
5. Feel secretly superior.
6. Take no action that might improve your condition.
7. Crow “I told you so” when things get worse.
The 7 Steps to Pursuing Your Dream:
1. Know what you’re trying to make happen.
2. Expect good things to happen for you.
3. Plant seeds of good things daily.
4. Trust that some of your seeds will grow.
5. Measure success by your own criteria.
6. Make progress daily without fail.
7. Believe in the power of the Elbs.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:28 AM
If you’re going to steal, at least attribute.
http://www.mondaymorningmemo.com/?ShowMe=ThisMemo&MemoID=1800
I had to go look, because I wondered what the heck an ‘Elbs’ was, and figured that if mike had actually *written* this, he would have explained it.
The piece was written by Roy H. Williams, the self-titled “Wizard of Ads”. Roy uses his Monday Morning Memo to generate traffic to his ‘Wizard of Ads’ book trilogy, and his Wizard Academy seminars (various topics, duration ranging from two-day to five-day, cost ~$1200/day) Roy is an advertising professional… meaning that his job is to convince you to buy something that you don’t really need or even necessarily want until he tells you that you do.
This is not to say that his words are worthless… just that (as in all things) you should consider the source, and investigate for bias.
(BTW, an ELB is an Exponential Little Bit — a topic from a previous Monday Morning Memo — about daily small changes that eventually add up into big changes. I’m a firm believer in this idea myself.)
April 21st, 2009 at 10:30 AM
LOL! Is plagarism part of hunkering down or dreaming? Ohhhh, burn.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Have lived in both Regina and Saskatoon currently live in alberta
would any one in saskatoon stand for regina pretending to be the dominant center of the province? but for some reason some condos in saskatoon are? regina does have the provincial head quarters for a few banks, is hq for cooperators life and western hq for canada life. saskatoon is hq for some local potash mines and uranium mines which are laying off workers.
wascana as a park is far superior to meewasin, no river, but the park itself is much nicer, with more features, including a better art gallery, the provincial museum, the science center and the imax, a nice out door pool, fountains that work, an island etc.
both cities are pretty similar, which is to say average, neither is edmonton or calgary calibre, and that’s highlighted by charles saying saskatoon’s strengths are its slightly closer proximity to calgary and etown.
and norm back in the day hotel sask had a pretty good buffet
April 21st, 2009 at 10:34 AM
and regina should be proud of all its great local restaurants
grekos on south albert is another great option
the chimney and cottage and lakeshore are also some nice local neighbourhood places
la bodega, crave, bitten probably 1,2,3 provincially in being cool, trendy restaurants
April 21st, 2009 at 10:36 AM
This squabbling over which City is better is downright rediculous. When you have to brag about big box stores and chain restaurants to make your point, you’ve pretty much lost the plot. I implore you, please take your inferiority complex-laden arguments to a different venue and save us local residents the embarrassment.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Doc, you may have missed where we were talking about reginas great locally owned restaurants
and wasn’t everyone on here all pumped last year when saskatoon got a larger than average walmart?
April 21st, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Norm – When you you calculate the underbid activity is that on the orginal listing price or the current listing price? I have been following a couple neighbourhoods very closely and have noted that many homes are now asking significantly less than their original price (back in the spring or summer).
April 21st, 2009 at 11:11 AM
The only thing I see people on here get pumped about is falling house prices and squirrel kebabs.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Heather D,
“My husband and I’s rent (2 bdm apt) is going up to $900 come Feb. 1st, luckily we’ll be out after only paying for 2 months…”
Where is your 2 bdm located?
“Good to hear they cancelled that increase. They can’t be pulling that crap in 2009!”
HAH! The Candlewood sure as hell can. Our rent (for a 1 bedroom apartment) is going up to 1,000 bucks come Feb 1.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Norm,
“It may surprise you to learn that the Mayor does not have authority to “up fees.” These kinds of changes are done through the authority of city council. The mayor doesn’t even vote on them unless there happens to be a tie vote with councillors.”
Just goes to show you (yet again) how inane and clueless the city councilors are by increasing the fee to register basement suites. It’s not just the mayor who is completely corrupt and useless.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:14 AM
“Jason said:
Norm, I really agree with your second last comment. It’s almost become taboo in this city to be a realist; and it seems if you’re not an absolute optimist then you’re a pessimist (there really doesn’t seem to be any middle ground).”
Here-here!! Bravo, Jason. You and Norm hit the nail right on the head. I love it when I’m criticized for telling the truth of the situation, and told I’m “bashing Saskatoon.” Yeah–I’m totally bashing Saskatoon for pointing out that homes here are 2-3 times more expensive than that they’re actually worth; and that this “boom” of ours is benefiting no one (save the already rich).
April 21st, 2009 at 11:15 AM
I have nothing against Saskatoon, really, it’s an okay place, but it is just too expensive to live there.
Without saying exactly what I do, health care related, I am moving to Winnipeg, buying a beautiful house for $300,000 in a very nice area and making the exact same amount per hour as if I stayed here. Ideally working lesser hours though.
Saskatoon is an okay place. But really so is Winnipeg. And Winnipeg is cheaper and has more cultural and entertainment options. It just didn’t make sense to stay in Saskatoon and pay extremely high rent, or wait the year, or two, for house prices to fall to where I could what I would consider a nice house for anything under $400,000.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:15 AM
hey both suck!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
(Edm and Cal, that is!)
April 21st, 2009 at 11:22 AM
I spent sometime in Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Saskatoon and recently spent a few days in Toronto. I came to the realization that the places i thought were nice are slums compared to Toronto. I myself live in Saskatoon and when I came back it looked horrible compared to the well planned and beautiful Toronto. The hotel I stayed in was Residence Inn Downtown and it was delightful with studio rooms and huge free breakfast buffet…so after hearing all the bickering and sometimes joining in I realized after my trip we are all just slums compared to Toronto. Kinda makes me wonder what Montreal looks like Ill have to take a trip there sometime.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:26 AM
“I myself live in Saskatoon and when I came back it looked horrible compared to the well planned and beautiful Toronto. The hotel I stayed in was Residence Inn Downtown and it was delightful with studio rooms and huge free breakfast buffet…so after hearing all the bickering and sometimes joining in I realized after my trip we are all just slums compared to Toronto.”
Sounds like a lot of the people on this blog really dislike Saskatoon. Funny many still live here and we are getting a lot of new people from Ontario moving here….ake UFO’s. (Unemployment From Ontario)
April 21st, 2009 at 11:27 AM
funny many on this blog have either left, or are leaving, because alberta pays more and manitoba has cheaper housing
i’d come back, but live in alberta because after living expenses, my take home income is much higher in edmonton
add that to renter, nick, dan, doug and others on this blog who decided saskatoon just is too costly to live for the jobs and life style available
April 21st, 2009 at 11:27 AM
My choice of where to live is based far more on being near family than on the merits of the city. I lived in Ottawa for a while and I liked the city a lot, but paying through the nose to fly back home to visit family sucked too much. The bus system was amazing though.
With the ability to order almost anything off the internet and have it delivered to your door, who cares how many big box outlets you can drive to in 10 minutes?
April 21st, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Dan,
“add that to renter, nick, dan, doug and others on this blog who decided saskatoon just is too costly to live for the jobs and life style available”
No offense at all intended here, but given that you’ve all decided to make your life elsewhere, and that your “take home income is much higher” because of it, and that you have all of these great restaurants, clubs and amenities at your disposal, any thoughts on why you guys spend so much time visiting a Saskatoon real estate blog? I’m really just curious.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Two Arbor Creek 2-story splits for $1,099,900 each.
Damn that’s funny.
A million bucks for a McMansion on a forty foot lot.
FWIW, I hate the big box/chain restaurant love in this town. That huge Wal-Mart gets people way too excited. There’s too much great local/independent retail and food here to waste your time in boring American megacorp stores. And it’s not ALL on Broadway and 2nd Ave.
I heard another “Broadway is full of freaks” type comment yesterday. Anyone who thinks Broadway is full of freaks doesn’t get out (to other cities) much. Yeah, that’s it, I love this town, but if I had to personify it, I’d say “Saskatoon doesn’t get out much”.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:39 AM
I’m sure someone has stats to refute all this but this is my expereience;
Originally moved to Calgary after University, stayed 5 years moved home to Saskatoon in 2006. Stayed with the same employer in a business to business Sales job, but am now making SIGNIFICANTLY more than I was being paid in Calgary.
Why? Although there is more business to sell to in C-town, there was also much more competition and I have found I have much less stress here and am making more money.
Not too mention the ridiculous vehicule insurance payments I had (being under 25 at the time), the $7-8 drinks at the bars… when they were on special that is…. and the hour long drives to get anywhere in the city.
Overall my opinion is the quality of life in The Sask is just better.
That is just my opinion.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Aside from The Sask’s drinking problem,
gas and taxes are cheaper in Alberta
and groceries and clothes are the same.
Here’s stats as requested, median family income:
Saskatoon $76,600
Regina $82,300
Edmonton $87,300
Calgary $90,700
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/080611/d080611c.htm
Norm, the reason I’m on here is it sure would have been nice to stay in Saskatoon, and I’d consider coming back. But I’m not paying a premium to do it. As well, it seems most of those who move away don’t frequent this blog much. My chance to vent, and I think Saskatoon losing well educated/high earning residents who expect to own a house/or high end condo, is a real concern. And aside from who likes which city, buying a house in Regina is much cheaper than Saskatoon.
When the best reason we have to stay in Saskatoon is the drink specials @ the Pat, I’d say we have recruitment issues.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Diver “huge Wal-Mart gets people way too excited”
I couldn’t agree more, personally I find the local small and unique restaurants a far bigger bonus to Regina than the Applebee’s. That said, people in Saskatoon are always bragging about the big Walmart (at least when I lived there) and seem to see big chain stores as a mark of big city status. If that’s the case, Regina’s east end won and it’s not even close. Go down to the States, and a lot of small dumpy cities have far larger Walmarts than Saskatoon, and Vancouver? no Walmart at all. Seriously. They see it as a bad thing.
Saskatoon was home for me and I’m making the best of living in a new city. Still, after a few mere months, there are already things I really appreciate about Regina.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Like Nick, I can’t help but check in on the blog to see what is the latest happenings with the Saskatoon market. Truth be told, I used to be the most pro-Saskatchewan guy you would ever meet, and would always shake my head when I saw one after another of my peers make the jump to Alberta. Well, during the “Boom” I found out that Saskatoon was like the friend that will stab you in the back and do whatever is needed, no matter how cruel or uncaring,to get and ahead and finally be one of the big boys. I guess to put it bluntly, I was deeply hurt by the attitudes of the people of Saskatoon who it seemed were trying to do everything possible to make the city as unhospitable for first time home buyers and those stuck in the expensive position of renting. It was like the city thought it was too good for home poor chumps like me, and they just wanted to sweep individuals like me out so they could make room for more speculators and their out of province money. Guys like me, who decided to stay in Saskatchewan not because of a cash incentive like is now being offered, but because of our genuine love for the people and the province. What I saw, however, was that as soon as somebody held a bag of money in front of the people of Saskatoon, their attitudes changed at the drop of the hat and it was almost like I was living with a bunch of strangers I did not know. I guess part of me hopes that the old Saskatoon I grew up in and loved returns, as I would really like to be able to retire at some point again here in Saskatoon.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:41 AM
About the median family income, is it really fair to extrapolate a median city-wide income to what you might expect to earn if you moved to that city? I’m going to say: only if the cities have substantially similar demographics and employment opportunities.
For example, does Saskatoon have a larger proportion of university students than those other cities? Probably… and if they’re included in the data (I must assume that they would be) that would bring our median household earnings down. How about retired, unemployed, and single people? Likewise, maybe one city has a large proportion of executive positions, while another employs a larger proportion of people in manufacturing or hospitality. Does anyone who has worked in another city and in a similar job have any apples to apples comparisons to share? In the case of my husband and myself, our salaries are virtually identical to what we earned in Southern Ontario. My husband earns about $3000 less now, and I earn about $5000 more.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:42 AM
heather may have a point, alberta has more university educated and high end jobs which artificially drives the average and median incomes up from saskatoon’s uneducated entry level work force ;}
as one of those people, guess norm’s right, time to move on, saskatoon isn’t getting affordable any time soon, but like nick said, takes a while of being home sick before you appreciate all the amenities which in the new city, but definitely getting easier, meeting new people and new friends, and even catching up with old friends who moved here almost a decade ago, when it was the cool thing to do
actually find shopping in alberta cheaper, as more selection, and even weekly drinks out cheaper, as always a place with buck a draft or similar, not really fair to say alberta’s more expensive because clubbing means pricier drinks
will still stop by to see what’s going on in saskatoon, but a lot less regular, maybe the drop in house prices will be more apparent if only checked every couple months
also, after one year, should figure out budget edmonton versus saskatoon, with lower income tax, and all, and then have some objective evidence for how much more it seems like take home pay is
April 21st, 2009 at 11:42 AM
frustrated you should retire in the okanagan
a lot of it is cheaper than saskatoon
doesn’t make sense but is true
looked it up and checked when brought up this spring by another poster
armstrong or enderby remind me of a small saskatchewan town, but with warmer winters and half hour to a beautiful lake
April 21st, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Heather,
Although I only speak of my personal experience… as I wrote in my previsous post, from my move from Calgary to Saskatoon where I stayed with the same company and the exact same job, just a different province, my income has increased considerably…. can’t get more apples to apples than that.
And despite Nick’s rudeness, my point is that The Sask has alot of other factors that make it desirable to live here.. like lower insurance rates, lower comutes and lower costs of entertainment, only to name a few.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Heather wrote: “… does Saskatoon have a larger proportion of university students than those other cities? Probably… and if they’re included in the data [...] that would bring our median household earnings down.”
Heather, how do you calculate this? My thought is that university grad = better wages. (I know that’s not always the case, but there’s a correlation.) Thus, having more of them would send the median *up*, would it not?
April 21st, 2009 at 11:44 AM
Hey Bookrat –
People with university degrees usually earn more than those without, especially over the long term: if you look at average earnings 10 to 15 years out of university, it’s quite noticeable.
But when students are *going* to school they live on almost nothing — usually what they can make working part time, supplemented by student loans. I think that’s what Heather’s talking about.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:50 AM
I’m in the engineering technology area. My jobs pay much better in Alberta. More selection too. I don’t know about retail and restaurant work, but I’m guessing the tips are better Alberta and BC too.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:50 AM
Just to throw my experience into this discussion- I’m making about $7K a year more than in BC for the same job. Hubby is perhaps making slightly less. Part of the reason (one of many) that we moved here was that the province not only has a really great Recruitment Grant for certain health care positions, but they will add additional grant dollars if your position is designated as “hard to recruit”. This program has drawn many people I work with to this province, and I hope they’re able to keep it up.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:51 AM
The Dude is back and the Dude has to respond to Dan’s comment, “problem is hip, young, uptown guys like me move to Alberta”.
In the Dude’s experience, anyone who refers to themselves as a hip and uptown guy usually isn’t.
That being said, the Dude wishes Dan all the best.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Norm/Brian S,
Wow! There are many more lots returned than I had expected. It WILL be like living on an acreage! :’)
Our only neighbouring lot to the side of us is back up for sale!!! It miffs me a bit to think my husband and I weren’t given a chance to pick a good lot (thankfully my builder got us one), and yet ALL these lucky people who got lovely lots just sent ‘em back!? Hope they got dinged big time! (If it were builders who backed out would they get penalized?)
Robin,
Our apartment is in Lakepoint Condominiums on Kingsmere Blvd. That’s bloody awful your rent is going up to 1K! I pray karma pops your apartment’s owner square in the jaw! My brother is paying $850 for a crummy old apartment in Sutherland… it’s so messed up.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:52 AM
Not sure I’m being rude, when the only pro-Saskatoon argument some one can mention is that drinks at the bar are cheaper. Maybe when trying to sell Saskatoon, don’t bring up cheapness of the bars here?
And insurance? Actually, for us grown ups with good driving records, insurance is often cheaper in Alberta. I just moved to Regina because housing is that much cheaper than Saskatoon or Alberta.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:52 AM
Frustrated Renter,
“I was deeply hurt by the attitudes of the people of Saskatoon who it seemed were trying to do everything possible to make the city as inhospitable for first time home buyers and those stuck in the expensive position of renting. It was like the city thought it was too good for home poor chumps like me, and they just wanted to sweep individuals like me out so they could make room for more speculators and their out of province money. Guys like me, who decided to stay in Saskatchewan not because of a cash incentive like is now being offered, but because of our genuine love for the people and the province.”
I could not agree with your post more. Pure greed (and the ignorance that accompanies greed) usually wins out in the end.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Not sure “entertainment” is going to the Pat either.
Definitely a lot of additional venues to spend entertainment dollars on in Alberta – but again, I live in Regina, with similarly priced opportunities, albeit more of them, to Saskatoon.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Actually, commutes are shorter in Regina and housing is cheaper too. Way to go the Sask. You completely missed out on Regina >> Saskatoon financially, and live in the same province!
Then again, not surprised some one from Saskatoon does not realise that Saskatoon is the same province as Regina! Fits with them having to “get out more”/Saskatoon is not the center of the universe.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:53 AM
and jroch, Saskatoon beating Regina university wise? kind of like winning at the Special Olympics!
The U of A, UBC and even U of M are all substantially bigger than the U of S.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:54 AM
I was born and raised in Saskatoon, I left for Alberta after University as there were no jobs available in Saskatoon. Although I like Saskatoon as I have family and friends there I cannot see any advantage to moving back from a financial perspective. I would have to take a pay cut of about 30%, double my property taxes, not to mention adding the PST to everything I purchase and pay more for a house than I would in Calgary. Luckily I bought pre-boom but if I was to sell my house it would cost me more for less in Saskatoon. Also in terms of insurance, I would have to suggest to The Sask that he do some research on this, as not only it costs me far less to insure my vehicles here in Alberta (and I know this, I can compare directly to my father, and this is with both excellent driving records). My motorcycle for example costs me $400 a year in Alberta with a $250 deductable and $1 million liability, but back home from SGI’s website it would cost $800 a year with a $700 deductable, and that is with the highest safety discount that SGI has to offer. Don’t get me wrong, my wife and I would love to move back to Saskatoon to be closer to family, but the numbers don’t add up.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:54 AM
The Dude said…
In the Dude’s experience, anyone who refers to themselves as a hip and uptown guy usually isn’t.
——————————————————
Neither are those who talk and write in the 3rd person….Having said that, I wish the Dude all the best in trying not to watch the Big Lebowski for at least one month.
I think we need to get off the comparison of Regina and Saskatoon. They each have their own special qualities. Since I have lived all over Western Canada, I would say Saskatoon is a small Calgary and Regina is a small Edmonton. Saskatoon and Calgary are the more aggressive cities in a business sense. Regina and Edmonton, although Gov’t towns, are more Blue collar.
Discussing who has better restaurants and parks kind of reeks of small guy syndrome thinking you’re in the big leagues city wise. Both cities are not close to the level yet. That’s not a slam. Be grateful that you aren’t at that level. Broadway might not be Whyte Ave. and Wascana Park might not be the North Saskatchewan riverpark system but you also don’t have near the crime of those big cities.
I obviously don’t live in Sask. so why do I read and post once in a blue moon? I have a chance to move back there mid-summer and I hope that I can so I can be close to family again. I’m old enough to know that family and friends are more important than money. I’m waiting for the “shoe to drop” economically before that move. I’m convinced that will happen. It has already started in Alberta and I suspect you’ll read a lot more about that in the next 60 to 90 days. Alberta had 16,000 layoffs in December. I’ve had business leaders tell me that they expect Edmonton alone will have that many layoffs in the next 60 days. Saskatchewan will not be far behind.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:55 AM
west can, actually Saskatoon and Regina are #1 and #2 in Violent Crime respectively
“also don’t have near the crime of those big cities.”
Saskatoon has OVER DOUBLE the violent crime rate of Calgary. ie about half the total crimes, with less than 1/4th the population
http://www.thebench.ca/?p=218
2007 Number, Violent Crimes (Rape, Robbery, Assault, Murder, etc)
Saskatoon 1,612 / 100,000
Regina 1,478 /100,000
Winnipeg 1,082 /100,000
Edmonton 1,031 /100,000
Vancouver 989 /100,000
Calgary 712 /100,000
Not even close.
Gotta love the random crime claims though.
Saskatoon safer? BS. Seriously.
Saskatoon WAY higher violent crime than ALL the remainder of Canada, save for only slightly higher crime than Regina. Still WORST in all of Canada.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:55 AM
And I think I have been very realistic park, restaurant etc wise, fully realizing Regina is a small city, but one with nice stuff. Saskatoon costs Edmonton money, minus Edmonton facilities, and minus Edmonton wages. Regina is significantly cheaper to live in, backed up by actual numbers, and has nicer places to go. Saskatoon is expensive to buy or rent, and lacks even the social outing of Regina.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Nick,
I won’t argue the numbers but I have lived in all those cities you quoted with the exception of Vancouver. In Regina and Saskatoon, a guy will pull out a gun in a store and demand money and smokes. He grabs the goods and runs. In Edmonton and Calgary, a guy will pull a gun in a store, demand money and smokes, grabs the goods and then shoots the clerk in the face. Stats wise, they are both violent crimes. What do you consider to be the lesser of the two evils?
The focus on most, not all, violent crime in Saskatoon is in the West end. In Regina, it’s north central. Calgary and Edmonton, its everywhere. I live in the far west end of Edmonton. It’s middle to upper middle class neighborhoods. Last month, there was a carjacking at gunpoint in Collingwood. A few weeks after in the same neighborhood, a pedestrian was shoot in the leg in a drive by. This morning in Patricia heights, while on my way to the dentist, 3 blocks were cordoned off by police because last night a guy driving an escalade was shot which caused him to drive into a house. He was dead by the time police got there. A couple of years a go, a teenaged girl was at WEM and ivited to a house party by some people she met at the mall. They drove to Stony plain just outside the city where she was raped and had her head bashed in on the fairway of the local golf course. It goes on and on….
Don’t tell me Saskatoon and Regina are more dangerous.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:56 AM
I LOVE Saskatoon! It’s all personal preference really. I’ve never liked Regina. Besides all the hoity-toity places where yuppies feel preeminent spending their (big) money on overpriced frapaccino lattes I really don’t see much of a difference between the two cities. Home is where the heart is, and mine is here.
All this back-n-forth rambling is so silly. Go Riders! *cough*
Nick,
You should try and keep your posts on here at least politically correct… Special Olympics??? Yikes.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Nick,
“Gotta love the random crime claims though.”
What is your sense for 2008?
I’m sure it won’t be a huge improvement but it appears we’re going to loose our “murder capitol” status. I have nothing to back it up but my wife works at Victim Services and says violent crime is down handily in Saskatoon in the last year.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Why is everyone still talking about the same things? Violent crime, Saskatoon vs Regina, Sask vs Alberta, Sask vs B.C…….
All I know is the most important thing in the world right now is economics. Alberta is defibitely hurting and Sask will be next. Fort McMurray is cooling off by the minute…. We just lost a 30M dollar contract at Suncor and we were one of many!!! Yesterday there were line ups out the doors of the airport for people trying to leave town, hoping the beat the next guy back to where their from just to secure a job back home.
People holding the bag on mortgages that were based on working 50-60 hours a week are going to be screwed. The ones that this is hurting is of course the young. The old people of Sask and Alberta put us all in a bad spot and we are looking at the hardest economic times that we will probably ever see. The young people don’t have a clue on what their decisions in the last 2-5 years will have on their futures and I’m sure for the most part it is going to hurt!!
April 21st, 2009 at 1:31 PM
More real estate spin in the news media today…
Why a buyer’s market is a first-timer’s market (canada.com, Vancouver)
http://www.househunting.ca/buying-homes/story.html?id=5bf45104-1bfa-4400-9d41-b1b5f181d9c9
“Most first-time buyers today are hesitant and will end up waiting too long before getting into the market”, David Watt of the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver says. “It takes more courage to go against the crowd and buy in a buyer’s market.” -and-
“Cameron Muir says he doesn’t expect prices will make any further significant drops. And he anticipates, once buyer-confidence returns, a ‘modest increase’ in sales by the spring.”
No Free Fall; Don’t Wait Too Long… (Greater Fool, Calgary)
http://www.greaterfool.ca/
Bonnie Wegerich of CREB, it’s a “stable and balanced market.” In fact, she adds, “there is no free fall here.” -and-
At a forecast conference on Wednesday the 19-year housing veteran declared the average house price in Calgary this year will drop by 2% from its 2008 average, to just over $450,000. At the same time, she adds cheerily, sales will rise by 10%. “My advice,” she told a breathless metropolis of pent-up buyers, “don’t wait too long.”
And so the expression goes… “If You Believe This, I Have a Bridge I Want to Sell You”.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Norm, are we up/down (±) this week in new new listings?
April 21st, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Westcan, Saskatoon actually led in murder as well in 2007
Norm, Saskatoon will absolutely lose murder capitol of Canada for 2008, but as all the pro-Saskatoon crowd pointed out when they were murder capitol, Murder is a rare occurence and not a great measure of violence/crime in a city. Saskatoon may not 3 peat for violent crime capital, but given how much higher it was than everywhere else in 2006 and 2007, I can’t see Saskatoon not at least be top 2 or 3 in violent crime for 2008. That’s a lot of stabbings, assaults, robberies etc. 1,600/100,000 so we can all do the math based on what we think the even more controversial actual population of Saskatoon is.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Nick — I’m not from Saskatoon, or even Saskatchewan, so the Regina/Saskatoon rivalry strikes me as profoundly stupid.
I pointed out that enrolled students have less money than working people.
That said, I came here for the job: in academia, you go where you get hired, because getting a real job is pretty difficult. My job is wonderful, my colleagues fabulous, and the city is growing on me… but no, it ain’t Paris. And for anyone who isn’t in a very competitive field, it’s much less than a mecca — there’s good things about Saskatoon, but fewer job opportunities than in bigger cities.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Jason,
At this point we’re down about 10 listings as compared to the end of last week. Fairly big sales week nearing 60 units in the residential category.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:36 PM
With all this bashing, I’m starting to wonder if relocating from Edmonton to Saskatoon was such a good decision.
I’ve never lived in Saskatoon, but grew up in Saskatchewan. Everyone I’ve talked to who visit regularly have lived in Saskatoon say that it’s a great city!! Sure it is not on the same size as Edmonton or Cowgary, but those who lived in both places tell me that they actually spent more time out enjoying the festivals and events while in Saskatoon, just because it was easier to get to and not as busy.
Sure the property taxes are ~30% more plus the PST issue and MORE expensive insurance (until my kids are driving), but from what I’ve seen, the neighborhood’s are a lot nicer than what is typically built in Edmonton and the river valley is alot more accessible.
As for the violence, it is everywhere. Edmonton led the country in murders a few years ago and Calgary had 4 on new year’s day! It’s part of a booming economy, and I’m thankful for the slow down (at least while I still have a job).
April 21st, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Norm, that *really* comes as a surprise. I’m thinking the numbers from about mid-February onwards will give more of an indicator of where things are shaping up.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:37 PM
Neal, the crime rate in Saskatoon has nothing to do with a “boom”. It led in violent crime before the boom, and continues to do so. Historically, Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Abbotsford and Surrey have VERY high crime rates.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:37 PM
http://www.leaderpost.com/Homes/Regina+leads+price+increases/1065569/story.html
Wow! Regina leads house price increases @ 22.8% year over year versus only 3.2% in Saskatoon!
April 21st, 2009 at 1:38 PM
I decided to look into purchasing a small condo with recent reports than prices are down. I do not find this to be the case at all! Prices to me still seem significantly higher than in the past and higher than other regions.
I have to agree, that as a new graduate, that I should consider a move to Manitoba or even Alberta for cheaper housing. As a nurse, I will make an average income in Saskatoon, but Alberta will pay me a bit more and Saskatoon condo prices just do not make sense to me. It is not reasonable to sit and have to wait out Saskatoon prices becoming affordable.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Nick,
If that keeps up you’ll have to start crappin’ all over Regina as well.
Jason,
Agreed. I had thought inventory might be fairly stable through February but I wouldn’t be surprised by anything.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:39 PM
I was creeping on this blog previously because I wanted to buy here, despite this blog maybe making me think I would be able to buy soon, that was not the case. Now than I’m moving to Manitoba will have no more need for up to date information on Saskatoon. Working for health care/government in Manitoba is really the best of both worlds, make industry standard wages and I will never be down sized. And I can enjoy my beautiful new house that will be big enough for a dog and as many kids as I end up having.
Sorry that I don’t have any need, or time, for you any more Norm
though some good discussions on here.
For me, never mattered whether Saskatoon, Regina or Winnipeg was better. For the same money, Winnipeg offers a better life style. Until Regina’s housing market gets as expensive as Saskatoon’s, doesn’t really matter who is better. Everyone can live better in Regina. Given 3 comparable cities, I went with the cheapest.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:39 PM
I should change the name to New Home Owner _ Manitoba Style
April 21st, 2009 at 1:40 PM
renter,
Oh, I feel so dirty.
Congratulations and best wishes for a happy future.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Don’t worry renter, Saskatoon will always be cheap at heart
April 21st, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Hi Heather,
If builders back out of a lot, the penalty for them is being removed from the “preferred builders” list. I think this translates into that it will be harder for them to get a lot next time.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Wow, I bet Nick never gets invited to parties. Can you imagine having a conversation with this guy face to face? Seriously Nick, you make this blog a frustrating read, I can’t stand it.
Anyways, anyone have any ideas on if we (Saskatoon, Regina or elsewhere in the province) will reap any rewards from the upcoming deficit? Yeah, yeah, I’m not here to argue whether the deficit is right or wrong or whether they will be voted out because of it, just wondering if we’ll see some stalled projects jump started or any new ones pop up.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Heather,
I apologize. I saw your question about builders returning lots, got tied up and forgot to respond until Brian picked up on it. I actually asked a local builder who is one of many who returned a lot or two from the last two draws. He tells me that a $15,000 deposit is required to hold a serviced lot. If the lot goes back to the city the deposit goes with it. He didn’t say anything about there being other consequences like being removed from a preferred list but I guess that’s possible. Perhaps it just didn’t come up because “all the builders have turned lots back.”
Avid,
I thought I heard on the news last week that there are no known goodies for Saskatchewan. Perhaps a disadvantage of all of the positive press we’ve seen over the past two years? Thanks for reading anyway.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:54 PM
“Perhaps a disadvantage of all of the positive press we’ve seen over the past two years?”
MHO, more a disadvantage that the province gives the federal Conservatives 13 of 14 seats every election come hell or high water.
- When the Libs are in power, why bother? We (collectively) don’t give them any seats regardless of how much they offer us.
- When the Cons are in power, why bother? We (collectively) give them seats regardless of how little they offer us.
Face it, democracies are the same everywhere; it’s the swing ridings that get the pork from both sides, while electorates that are solidly in the pocket (or solidly out of reach) get ignored.
Cynical? Me? Naaaaaahhhh…
April 21st, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Norm/Brian S,
Well I’m glad those builders forfeit a $15K deposit at least, too bad it goes back to the city – should be divvied up between those who didn’t get a pick! ;’)
I doubt the preferred list will really matter this time around with so many lots and less interest. I’m interested to see though which ones sell first, the smaller lots or walk-out basement lots. The latter has been most popular in the past… but things might be different. Perhaps with the “r” word on everyone’s lips some will reconsider their McMansions.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:55 PM
In the news.
Record earnings for Potash Corp – profits triple in 2008 over previous year. PCS plans to proceed with their expansion plan starting with investments of nearly 2 billion dollars in 2009.
http://tinyurl.com/ad7g28
Non-residential construction in Saskatoon increased 18% in Saskatoon to a record $557 million. Meanwhile, residential construction slowed by 5% to 1,589 units.
http://tinyurl.com/chjaff
Retail sales cool in Sask. – “Doug Elliott, who publishes the Sask Trends Monitor newsletter, updated statements made at the height of the Saskatchewan spending boom that people were spending money like the proverbial drunken sailor. People are now just spending money “like slightly inebriated sailors,” Elliott offered in an interview Thursday.”
http://tinyurl.com/cyc2l8
April 21st, 2009 at 1:55 PM
That’s an interesting article about retail sales. Here’s the rub:
“But Elliott has also noted heavy borrowing by upbeat Saskatchewan consumers resulted in increases in spending that were not matched by increased personal incomes.”
Whoops!
Inflation data was also released this morning:
http://tinyurl.com/apwucb
“OTTAWA — Plunging gasoline prices and reluctant consumers with a wary eye on the recession are driving Canada’s inflation rate into negative territory.
Consumer prices fell 0.7 per cent in December from a month earlier, the third month in a row for generalized price declines, and the fourth contraction in five months.”
Annual inflation rate in Saskatchewan (Previous month in brackets):
Saskatchewan 2.6 (3.2)
All provinces and territories:
http://tinyurl.com/dc7sws
Also of note:
Oil sands layoffs coming down pipeline
http://tinyurl.com/bypnbh
April 21st, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Hi,
Sorry to drop in on the blog. I’ve been following it, but have never posted, however, a couple of recent posts have intrigued me. I work for CBC Radio and I’ve been looking into some stories about housing and the boom.
Guy_in_Regina,
I would love to talk to you about the cancellation of your rent increase, and whether others in your building have experienced the same thing.
Wesco,
I would love to talk to you about the situation in Fort McMurray, with people returning to Saskatchewan for jobs.
By talking to me, you’re not agreeing to an interview or anything, but I’d just like to learn more about your posts and what you’re both seeing/experiencing.
I’d appreciate you contacting me — I can be reached by phone at 306-347-9711, or by e-mail at Sheryl.Rennie@cbc.ca
P.S. Norm — I enjoy the blog. Thanks for having the venue for people to post and comment…and not just because it helps me with stories!
April 21st, 2009 at 1:56 PM
I am now renting an two-bedroom apartment. And got a notice from the building manager that I need to pay money for my visitors (my parent who come to help take care of my baby). And the amount is the rent fee divided by four. They said the reason for this is that “the apartment is supposed to be lived by four”. But now the people lived in the apartment is only 4 include my parent.
I wonder who knows any laws or regulation about such situations. I really doubt if the occupant of my parent should be restrict by the manager.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:57 PM
LeaseHolder,
You can always inquire with the Office of the Rentalsman regarding your rights but I expect your lease details who has a right to live there, and probably some reference to how many people. As far as I know, the landlord does probably have a legal right to limit the number of people staying there. Obviously, in your case it sounds a little less than compassionate. If the parent is not actually “living there” but visiting, the rules may be different. I would call the Rentalsman.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Leaseholder, unfortunately it looks like Norm is probably right; you landlord can limit occupancy, or change extra rent for extra occupants IF it’s specified in your lease. Check your lease to see if it limits how many people can live in your unit.
Otherwise, if your lease doesn’t set specific limits, the wording of the act is pretty vague, saying that the landlord has the right to limit occupancy to a ‘resonable’ number, but cannot refuse to allow guests under ‘reasonable’ circumstances. Good luck!
You can read the act here: http://www.qp.gov.sk.ca/documents/english/Statutes/Statutes/R22-0001.pdf
April 21st, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Thanks, Norm and Heather.
If there is no clear terms in the lease about how much should be charged for the additional occupant, can the manager decide the amount just as s/he likes?
April 21st, 2009 at 1:58 PM
aLeaseHolder,
Check to see if there are any regulations associated with the Act. Usually Acts are sparse on specifics; the details are spelled out in Regulations.
Good luck!
Radio Gal,
I’ll drop you a line this weekend.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble avid, we can’t all be housing boosters, and I think all those people who bought houses/condos here in the spring, and now have neighbouring units for $50,000 less would have appreciated having a level voice of reason in the spring to talk them out of it. With the inventory the way it is, and more condos on the way, I’d say another $50,000 (15%) drop isn’t out of the question. Really sucks for those who bought at peak. Still not great to buy a specu-condo now.
Sorry, for you Avid, everything is awesome. Saskatoon does not lead Canada in violent crime, has every bit as much services as bigger more affordable cities and housing prices must have bottomed out because other realtors tell us to buy now or be “sorry”! Maybe you should hang out at the Chamber of Commerce if you want always positive, though often inaccurate, boosters.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:59 PM
Certainly I would have appreciated a voice of reason when I bought my condo at a premium last year. My work place has down sized, and I am being sent back to Calgary. Unfortunately, my condo which is listed well under what I paid for it just won’t sell against all the competition out there. It is a difficult time to be a seller in Saskatoon. It appears this market will only get worse. But to take an even larger loss on this sale is so difficult. Holding onto hope that I can get away with just a moderate loss.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:00 PM
leaseholder,
If there are no clear terms, then the landlord shouldn’t be able to implement a new rule like extra rent for extra people without some notice. I’ve been in that situation, where I was presented with a RETROACTIVE $50/month ‘utility fee’ for the air conditioner I’d installed months previously to try to keep my naturally +40C apartment in the +30′s. I refused to pay, since it was never mentioned and was not in the terms of our agreement, so I (and only I) was then handed notice of an equivalent rent increase. I moved out soon after it took effect. Too bad for them… I paid my rent with post-dated cheques, got rid of the cockroaches in my unit (that I was told about the day I moved in), and never caused any maintenance or noise problems. Landlords often infringe on tenant’s rights, intentionally or not. Here’s some more reading:
http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/reho/yogureho/fash/fash_012.cfm
It’s good to know your rights, but try to be diplomatic; you may win this battle, only to find that the landlord exercises his right to raise the rent with notice. With no rent control in place, you may find that your rent increase is unreasonable if the landlord is ticked off with you.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:00 PM
“With no rent control in place, you may find that your rent increase is unreasonable if the landlord is ticked off with you.”
(Ah, yes: the logic of not having rent controls. [shakes head])
That’s what Saskatchewan badly needs, but will never get: managed rent increase legislation of some [ANY] kind. *Some* sort of sanity so landlords can’t just raise the rent to whatever level they want without any justification.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:00 PM
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/letters/Citizens+lack+manners/1213675/story.html
April 21st, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Someone asked further up the thread if there were any “goodies” for Saskatchewan with the upcoming taxpayer funded spend-a-thon. I’m not sure if this counts- this may have been in the works for some time:
Sask. gets $25 million for innovation and economic development
http://tinyurl.com/cbcgbq
The provincial government will match those funds, for a total investment of $50 million.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Norm, just wanted to take time out and thank you for a great blog. Without it, I wouldn’t know what the heck is going in Saskatoon or the rest of province.
I never formerly introduced myself, but have posted a few times. I’m originally from Florida, but have spent the last six years in Regina. Why you ask? You’ll have to ask my wife who has lived here all her life.
I’ved watched this property/commodity/equity runup over the years and it is without a shadow of a doubt bubble mania. Unfortunately, this province is not immune.
I appreciate everyone who posts and wonder where George has been? You know, everyone has a point of view, so lets take it all in and respect one another. Peace.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Yeah where is George of the internet jungle?
April 21st, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Chartist,
Thanks for the kind words and thank you for reading.
George has a job that requires some travel and I think it’s difficult for him to get here when he’s away.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Is there any way to tell how many offers a listed property has got?
April 21st, 2009 at 2:03 PM
Sue,
There is no way, unless the seller or the seller’s agent are willing to tell you.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:03 PM
guy_in_regina –
Not to be impatient, but you should get in touch with me. It’s Sunday. I’m not working again until Thursday, and I have some information I think you’d like to know (and at the same time, you can help me).
April 21st, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Radio Gal,
e-mail sent.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Is it just me or is this whole downtown condo/loft thing backwards? Lofts and such in undesirable downtown areas arose from the ability to purchase a relatively inexpensive piece of property. These areas in larger cities (New York, LA, Paris)… all became trendy/cool because so many young people could finally afford something. Starting from nothing and trying to develop a trend and charge a premium for it is completely insane. You can’t start off with high end units (River landing project excused) because there really is no draw to living in downtown Saskatoon, I would also argue that there is no draw to having a condo on the west bank of the river either when all the views are from the East side looking downtown. Developers should instead focus on inexpensive loft style units along 23rd and 24th street first. Build the downtown population and the attraction and trend will grow from that.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:05 PM
I’ve heard so much about this Fisher guy. Really refreshing reading your blogs. No comment in particular on the ‘subject’…just wanted to say how much we enjoy your site.
All the best from the ‘wet coast’.
Regards – Don & Patty