o Parking lots.

o Private buildings with no public access or public function.

Again, just a sign of the times. The sorts of people making decisions are the sorts who want oodles and oodles of money.

Here in Winnipeg that sort of thinking has resulted in a downtown so undesirable and unappealing, we flush millions of dollars doing the same things to revive it.

If you want to develop a downtown that is attractive and bustling you need to make more shops and public spaces. Nobody is going to stand around a locked door going “what a wonderful downtown we have!”

Saskatoon is blessed to have something like the art gallery and such a nicely developed riverfront. You also have most of the workings of a desirable downtown! A good shop street, strong efforts towards *public* parking spaces, Broadway just a hop away…

In time those too will be ruined with the greed-thinking prevalent today.

As a residential agent, I have never been able to relate to what they do to commercial real estate. As you say, lots of decent buildings torn down all the time. I guess this is how the owners avoid paying huge tax bills on them when they’re vacant.

Hopefully, there’s some kind of a plan for the Barry site. Seems like it would be a stupid investment to buy it simply to rip it down. I suspect we’ll see something going up there before too long.

Lots of progress, to be sure. I’m happy to see the developments you mentioned, and would love to see more.

When I say “gravel wasteland” I mean downtown buildings torn down in favor of parking lots. Joe’s Lunch on 20th, Extra Foods on 3rd Ave, Pacific Cinemas on 22nd, the list goes on, back into the past. I don’t doubt that some day these lots will have buildings on them, but I think it’s a shame that yet another downtown corner will be home to a parking lot.

Sorry to up the negativity factor on your blog, but it pains me to see good quality buildings (granted, the Barry is certainly questionable in that regard) torn down in favor of cheap replacements, or worse, a “gravel wasteland”.

On the positive side, I think the new River Landing proposal is great, the warehouse conversions are wonderful and our downtown is likely poised to greatly increase in residential and commercial/office density in the coming years.

Well, I disagree with you too.

What are you referring to when you say “gravel wasteland?”

I see all kinds of good things going on downtown as far as the residential market is concerned. You’ve got a new building on 900 Spadina and the Parktown Manor on 25th. There are four fairly major developments well underway in the downtown core (not new but still a substantial number of units) and a twenty story condo project on the drawing board at River Landing. Seems like progress to me.

No, I can’t hold him to anything until I have a lot, that’s the problem. :’(

Well, we’re already there in terms of crime! The 2 largest cities in SK have the most criminal activity in all of Canada… that’s not an image I care to uphold.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20080313%2fdangerous_cities_080313

I do hope that the affordability issues are able to worked out. I have been fortunate not to lose a whole bunch of family to long distance moves and I really hope that my kids can be here.

My daughter moves out this weekend. My son is first year UofS so we expect to have him around for at least a few years.

I understand that the lot thing is frustrating. It must hurt to hear news of prices rising further while you wait for a lot. Can you nail your builder for a price today?

LoL!!!

I see what you’re saying. I guess I am pretty depressed about this whole thing. I didn’t mean to take you down with me!

The only silver lining I can see right now is that eventually, providing my husband and I keep saving money each month, we will get into a house. I wish I had something more concrete to set my sights on. That’s what the lot draw was for me, but it seems like it’s never going to arrive, which I know is ludricious, but 6 months of waiting tends to feel like “never”, and there’s still no end in sight.

It’s interesting to hear about your family situation. I’m very optimistic that 3-5 years down the road there will be a strong buyer’s market for real estate, especially with all of the baby boomers moving out of their big houses. I’m certain the situation will be very different than what we’re seeing now. However, the low vacancy rate right now may have temporarily lost your daughter and/or son the opportunity to move out of your house… which could depress one! ;’)

I don’t mean to accuse you of anything.

I’m just finding that this blog is taking an increasingly negative tone, and frankly, it’s depressing me.

Certainly, we have our problems but there are a lot of great people in this community, and at city hall. I’m concerned that readers who stumble upon us may get the impression that we’re all money grubbing slobs, or homeless people.

The reason I’m on here is because I DON’T believe there are many things being done “right” in this city. I’ll be the first person to acknowledge acts of kindness and benevolence. To make accusations that all some of us do on here is complain, that simply isn’t true. I’ve admired the Milroy tenants for standing up and appealing the city’s decision, even though the odds are against them and others are trying to bring them down. I admired our Prime Minister Stephen Harper for throwing caution to the wind in a country FULL of bullish people. I admired Murray Prokosh for narrowing his profit margin by offering more affordable housing to over 1000 families. When and IF I see any builders in SK attempting to keep their rates reasonable you can be DAMN sure I will acknowledge them, but thus far it seems most builders here are taking full advantage rather than opening their hearts. And as many people on here have so kindly pointed out, this is the joy of a free market.

Myself and others stuck in this mess are the “small handful” of people that should be taken seriously. It’s too bad you weren’t when predicting the “tremendous need” for more serviced land in 2006, perhaps some of this insanity could have been avoided.

It is very frustrating when the lot draw keeps getting pushed back further and further. Especially when building costs are climbing higher and higher each month. How about estimating the worst-case scenario date, and then pleasantly surprising people when the lot draw happens 1 month before that? It’s better for everyone if the city bites the bullet and comes up with an honest timeline. They’ve had a whole year to evaluate what it’s like to contract work in this market, if they can’t keep up with the demand then just be honest with people for heaven’s sake! And unless Saskatoon sees slowing this year, there’s NO WAY they’ll have more lots serviced for a fall lot draw, so they should stop spreading those rumours right now and save everyone the headache, including those poor people at the Land Branch.

Alex,

Nobody here called the “Ignorant and Incompetent Boob” that, he/she/it is just being defensive.

Home Owner,

I certainly don’t think all home owners are greedy, most people just want to LIVE, and aren’t closely watching the market for fluctuations. I WILL be one of these people when and if I ever get into a house. I want to stay in Saskatoon for the rest of my life, I want to have a family, I want to LIVE. I won’t care what my house is valued at, I just want my own place to call home, I hate renting.

It confounds me as to why anyone would be FOR this crazy market! Why some people in this city want to see real estate sky rocket?! Why anyone would want to see first-time home buyers and low income families be shut out from owning real estate? The only answers I can come up with is that either they’re investors/flippers, or they’re interested in selling their property and leaving SK to a more affordable destination. (You can buy some pretty nice houses in certain areas of the U.S. for much cheaper than you can buy them here)

Do I have the longest post yet?

Thanks for the blog (at least there is one place where we can all share thoughts). I appreciate that you have a family and hope that you didn’t think I included you in the parties trying to shut everyone up because you have proven time and time again with your blog that there is somewhere to have a voice.

I hope there is some remedy to the situations too for everyone. As far as myself, I know that by far i’m not one that is under the bus yet like many others are in this city, i’m not in tremendous debt but when there is no ‘negative’ side to things, usually in society that means there is something wrong too…or it’s utopian which being human i’m not sure if that’s even realistic (but i can hope). I think hearing both sides is a show of a society that has both push and pull. We’re just evening things out for the whole ‘BOOM BOOM BOOM’ that is shoved down everyones throats by the media (when there is no proof besides house prices increased)…jobs certainly aren’t really numerous unless you want to work in fast food.

Sorry got a bit off topic…i need coffee.

When we find the sponges? Right now it’s such a convoluted situation I’d be happy enough to know how and why the system is failing. Once all that has been determined, let’s ask this question again.

The most we know at this point is that there is an insatiable desire to accumulate wealth out there. This is expressed by many people who are staunch defenders of the way things are right now.

What’s good for those goose they figure is good for the gander.

Regarding me moving away – I think it is sad. In a lot of ways it is less than a compromise because I was required to do something against my original intentions.

(The side discussion to that is I have observed a lot of benefits in coming back to Winnipeg. But that is more a talk about where I wanted to be than real estate and economy.)

Ignorant and Incompetent Boob,

I’m sorry that you were called that and I hope you’ll realize it wasn’t me who said that.

There are indeed many people who function inside of any layer of government that are in fact quite exceptional.

The main problem there is that you have to adhere to whatever policies and decisions the higher ups make. This includes the figureheads.

What might help is speaking out in your position. But I know that now is an age where people will not (and likely cannot afford to) compromise their livelihood for the sake of their principles.

That gets back into things I’ve said in the past where people need a job before they need a good paying job. The people have no leverage in this economy.

When it comes to positive, many municipal governments are turning into leverage for business. Even Winnipeg suffers from this with a business owner for a mayor and city councilors that have been at their position for well over 15 years.

I have already spoken about how the mayor of Saskatoon seems less than interested in issues that he does not personally take interest in.

Definitely not the mark of a leader and looking at his track record he shows no competence as a leader.

That boils down to representation.

Young people are not getting proper representation these days. They are voting in ways that work against them because they are easily persuaded by misinformation.

I don’t see a lot of positive in government nowadays, sorry. I do note a good thing when I see it, but it just isn’t there.

The people trying to represent do it for reasons other than to represent. Furthermore, wages and costs are skyrocketing with not even a flinch. Again, why? Because if it isn’t a problem for them, it shouldn’t be a problem for you.

Thanks for chiming in. As far as foresight is concerned, a quick look back to fall of 2006 might be helpful. These were the “expert” opinion forecasts for resale real estate in 2007.

Century 21 sees prices increasing three to six percent.

Remax is predicting price increases of four percent.

CHMC is predicting prices will rise by seven percent.

If I recall correctly, the Home Builder’s Association, and a few advocates like myself were the only small handful that saw a tremendous need for more lots. Saskatoon had produced somewhere in the range of 700 lots in 2006? We were asking council to up production to 2,192 and council agreed to do that, and then the city actually made it happen.

So basically, the city threw the dice and went with the “best case” predictions which were out there at the time while CMHC was warning that we couldn’t possibly consume that many lots.

On the condo thing, well, sorry. I’m all for freedom and property rights but tenants do deserve far better than they’ve seen so far. We have got to get some order happening there because we just can’t keep spitting people out the bottom end.

I do appreciate the many complicated challenged that you people are faced with at this time. Many others do as well.

I’m not suggesting that people should “go silent” and I certainly relate to much of what’s been said.

Mine is a single income household, and while I can’t complain about income I don’t have a cabin, a boat, and I’ve never been to Mexico.

What I do have is a 19 year old son and a 22 year old daughter, neither of whom own property. More than anything, I hope that they’ll be able make a life for themselves in Saskatoon.

I’m choosing to spend the lion’s share of my energy figuring out, with them, how we’re going to make that happen.

Yes, we should all feel free to express how we feel but we’ve got to take some care to ensure that our thinking doesn’t become self-defeating. If you only see complaining, rolling over, or moving out as your options then I expect that’s where it will probably go.

I can tell that you’re a bright person. You will figure it out, just like Alex did. Hopefully, it won’t mean a move away.

And guess what? They’re failing, miserably.

How do you not understand that?

Here’s the wonderful part–even after City Hall realized that we had a LOW LOW LOW vacancy rate on our hands, they were STILL approving condo-conversions. Add to that, there were some city councillors who were playing dumbto the fact that administration was green-lighting every single apartment building to condos. If anyone should have that kind of knowledge, it’s a city councillor. If they don’t know anything, what do we pay them for?

You cannot justify that, so you might as well stop trying.

Thanks for replying, although I don’t think you are quite correct. All kinds of condos are being built, with the exception of the high density, downtown/core area variety. The kind that encourages better civic life, better public transit, and makes for a more vibrant community.

I’m just not pleased that our core will be seeing another gravel wasteland.

You are right on the 4 councillors that DID vote. Far as i remember it was a tied vote with the mayor casting the deciding vote so yes, clearly not EVERYONE is being eeeeeeeeevil.

That being said, I’m not sure everyone including myself is blaming the City fully, or this fully or that fully, as it takes more than one thing to effect so many people, but when we’re trying to do our own investigation it’s tough to not look like a pity party since it’s either we look into it or we accept everything or move. I tend to think the people that are frustrated with this indeed grew up enjoying this province and probably still do, so it’s out of the love for the province (or city) that we’re fighting for when we’re trying to figure out why the average joe’s are going to be kicked from the province soon enough. Maybe we should all just roll over and let the steam roller run all over, or just all move, i mean that’s an option too.

Perhaps some parties would like that, just shut up and let us make our money, have our cabins, boats, 2 weeks in mexico, and if we’re a business owner hey there are graduates (suckers) every year so we can replenish our workforce that is forced to leave the province becuase of the poor pay and poor living situation.

We may be called the pity party but if we’re trying to investigate what’s going on here when we’re constnatly being told that there is this BOOM happening here and that THIS is the place to be…when it’s apparent that it’s not really a boom at all…

It’s frighteningly similar to a workplace saying WE’RE A GREAT PLACE TO WORK FOR! And not telling anyone that 30 out of 90 people have left in the past year and a half becuase it’s NOT a good place to work.

Maybe we should all just go silent and let things be, let the greed run the province since that would make it easier for those gaining from this. Lets all make it easier for them.

Thank you for expressing that, as an Ignornat Incompetant Boob that works at City Hall it is a common occurance for everyone to lump us all together and blame us for all their troubles in life. Too often all we ever hear are the negative things from all the nayasayers, not often enough do we ever hear about the positive things that the City accomplishes for its citizens.

Robin and the Pity Party,

Although the lot draw process has been around for some time, it wasn’t too long ago (i.e. before Jan 2007) that you still could go and pick out a lot in some parts of the City (i.e. Hughes Drive in Dundonald). In fact, one Councillor mandated that the park in Hampton Village be developed much earlier than originally planned because lots were not selling!

Many people on this board seem to blame people at City Hall for not seeing this boom coming. My question to them is if it was so apparent that this was going to happen, why didn’t you buy real estate back then??

The people who work dilegently for the City are ordinary people who are just as affected by what’s happening as the rest of people out there. Stop trying to point the finger at us, if you don’t like living in Saskatoon, then move! You always have a choice, accept the consequences and make it.

Exactly! Every bit of your equity gain is offset by your need for shelter. There’s no big windfall here for average Joe.

Point being, you can’t label existing home owners greed as being part of the problem here.

Fact: they knew *better*. This is a college town. You can’t let the vacancy rate drop to a pitiful 0.6 percent. Everyone at City Hall has a lot of explaining to do. The majority of ‘em are ignorant, incompentent boobs.

All kinds of condos are being built. It seems to only be limited by the supply of land right now. Conversions are only attractive because people seem to be willing to pay $200,000 for a little box.

Heather, Jason, Jesse and Alex,

Excuse me for interrupting the pity party.

You guys seem to be able to pick up on everything that is wrong with society. Is anybody doing anything right?

It just dawned on me that in spite of the fact that 4 city councillors voted against the Milroy conversion, there hasn’t been a single “attaboy” or even a mention of that.

Everybody is not against you. Some people do care.

Alex,

“we have to find the sponges.”

What would we do to them when we find them?

An exmaple of people that either don’t care or don’t keep in touch with how things are going was that counciller that finally realized there was a problem when they had a close family member (daughter i think) effected by the whole condo ‘fun’ THEN all of a sudden it became an issue.

As for Callum, as i’m sure everyone can see, he’s laughing all the way to the bank, which is fine, I tend to wonder if he’s just doing business, I wonder what his significant other, parents, or anyone else he cares about would say if they saw the way he really thinks and acts towards others on this board or other areas in his life. I have no ill will towards this person but I just hope his concience can cash the cheque every time he writes when he makes a snide remark.