The point I think we started at, there are nice places to move

I think they key is if you are about a research university, Edmonton with now cheaper housing, and the U of A kicks the U of S’s academic butt at EVERYTHING (minus they don’t have a vet school, though Calgary soon will!). The U of S’s college of medicine is tiny and was on academic probation forever, actually consecutive terms. The U of A (and everywhere else in Canada) lacks a synchrotron but has oodles of high tech goodies (NMR’s etc) in quantity and quality far beyond Saskatoon.

Edmonton’s cultural scene is far superior. I don’t think anyone who’s been to Whyte and it’s clubs and venues would argue this, without considering the rest of the city at all! Yes Edmonton’s commute is longer (if you don’t live near work) but Lloyd’s is shorter!

My main point, we keep spouting small town convenience. There are a lot of small town, more convenient places, granted more Red Deer than Abbotsford (I don’t think I was ever really that pro Abbotsford, just said almost 160,000 pop was close to us) than Saskatoon.

To explain, Saskatoon says:

Smaller than Calgary but more services than small town, ie Red Deer … (omit less than Calgary/Etown)

so best of both worlds but…

others could say:

Calgary/Edmonton, smaller than T.O. but more services than Saskatoon, and pro hockey!

Red Deer, smaller than Saskatoon, so no traffic jams over the university bridge! but way more stuff than Drumheller

Toronto, smaller than New York but bigger than Warman!

Point is, there are other, cheaper decent places out there. If we want to come across as a cheaper, friendlier, more livable Calgary, then Red Deer is the cheaper, friendlier, more livable Saskatoon.

On that note, Potash is a huge multinational company and the most valuable company on the TSX – it has huge market/pricing power over the world’s fertilizer production. Cameco controls a fifth of the world’s uranium supply! These are not trifling operations.

As for Abbotsford, the same comments apply. It does have a lot of mega churches but no big university and no real “walkable” downtown core or “hip” shopping streets.

More importantly is the “feel” of the centre. This is somewhat difficult to describe but Saskatoon to me just feels like a bigger, denser, more cultured/complex city than Abbotsford, Red Deer, Prince George or Kelowna and more charming, too. Again, the closest comparables to Saskatoon (17) would seem to be Victoria (15), Regina (18), maybe Halifax (13) in terms of degree of urbanization.

Of course, I might add that housing prices in Abbotsford and especially Kelowna are higher than Saskatoon. Kelowna is outrageously priced, in fact, without corresponding (local) incomes to match.

Retail sales are more about consumer confidence (which is good) than indicative of actual fundamentals. I’ve heard Sask debt levels are at an all time high. Borrowing to furnish the house you couldn’t afford on the 40 year mortage … hopefully not from Walmart (or Ashley, their return policy sucks)

I didn’t say retail spending was indicative of success. I said it was better proof of a retail boom than a new Wal-mart.

Another possibility is people in Saskatoon are just going deeper into debt. To me retail spending isn’t indicative of success. Look at the U.S.

I would say the fact that Saskatchewan is leading the country for increased retail spending is probably more indicative of a “retail boom” than what Walmart is building.

I have no problems with others that have a different POV than my own.

“before we used to talk about the housing market”

I don’t ever recall you even posting on here before.

“Now it’s all about name calling, character assinations.” This seems a bit

hypocritical considering the title you gave me.

Jim,

I guess it’s as jrochest was saying, Saskatoon’s population is a strange number, not many cities are comparable in size. I will definitely bookmark that link when I get home. Those are some crazy interesting stats! Calgary is indeed MUCH less saturated with violent crimes comparitively.

Doug,

I very much agree with what you’ve said. I was outraged when I found out the City of Saskatoon was going to (and maybe did?) offer Walmart a tax break for building a new store! Why does a company like WALMART need a tax break from us?! Did they really require a bribe to build a new store here? I seriously doubt it.

Westbank (Kelowna’s west side, just across the bridge)has a lot of industry, some semi truck manufacturer, factories and a pretty big looking industrial park with a couple big saw mills when you drive by. Kelowna area also has a lot of major vineyards and orchards are still pretty big business. Kelowna also has nice cultural areas (plural), a nice waterfront with pubs and restaurants and little shops, a couple huge resort-convention centres, and a mall that seems way bigger than Midtown (Orchard Park), that and a pretty good cultural scene. It also has UBC Okanagan, which while smaller than U of S, is linked to UBC which kicks U of S’s butt in pretty much everything academic, including research.

What all the Red Deer stuff is getting at is that there are other decent sized places, Red Deer, Kelowna (which I like), Kamploops, Abbotsford, Prince George etc… which may not be the exact same, but are pretty decent places. Saskatoon’s a lot closer to those places size wise, at 202,000, they all lack a pro sports team, we have a river, others have lakes or rivers too.

There’s nothing wrong with comparing a smaller place like Red Deer, after all, we’re not that comparable at all to Calgary or Edmonton, with bigger universities, better cultural districts Whyte>>>Broadway, Calgary has an actual down town, pro sports, huge malls, proximity to mountains, olympic level training facilities, way more corporate head quarters than us, of more diverse companies.

Calling Saskatoon a substantial corporate centre is speaking pretty highly of Potash Corp and Cameco.

In the States, you’ll see bigger new Walmarts in towns barely the size of P.A. (and certainly not the size of Red Deer). Often time these towns with one or two jumbo Walmarts also have a big Home Depot and a few similar big box stores. Some of these towns are in the crapper, despite the huge new Walmart. Maybe Walmart thrives because of places with low wages and high costs of living? Whatever the case, big new Walmart means nothing in terms of boom.

That and it’s not even that big in North American terms. All new Walmarts are huge.

Violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Saskatoon 1,606

Calgary 802

So, yes Calgary has a bit lower (okay less than half)

violent crime rate than Saskatoon.

Apparently, their bystanders are not harmed as often.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070718/d070718b.htm

Please book mark this link, as I’ve provided it a half dozen times and really is interesting to see HOW MUCH higher Saskatoon and Regina were to winning the title of most violent, wasn’t even close for third place, and Saskatchewan as a whole is much higher than other provinces too, so not an isolated thing based on a few crimes in our small city one year, well over 3,000 last year!

And Ron, from Wikipedia on Abbotsford, sounds pretty close to us:

“It is the 5th largest municipality in British Columbia and the 37th largest in Canada, home to 128,940 people (2006). Its Census Metropolitan Area numbers 159,020 people (23rd largest in Canada in 2006).”

And Kelowna, also wikipedia, got lazy for real #’s:

“Kelowna (2007 population 106,707, metropolitan population of 165,596) ”

Also pretty close to Saskatoon size wise,

remember as well Kelowna, far more isolated than Saskatoon, with no Regina 2 hours away, and a lot of “suburbs” and nearby cities with 30,000 to 50,000 people, so it also packs more punch than population alone.

Actually, Saskatoon only had 202,340 in the 2006 census, even now, the City of Saskatoon website only has it at 208,000, and they’ll cautiously over estimate their own numbers.

Well, what is comparable? Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg are all more than 2.5X Saskatoon’s last census 202,000 population and we here constant comparisons to them. No one’s saying Red Deer is our twin city. Just both are moderate size cities, with decent amenities, recent booming population growth (okay Red Deer wins there) and lots of available job opportunities. It’s just a decent sized, nice western Canadian city, with cheaper housing, and even shorter commutes than what we brag about in Saskatoon.

People here make it sound like we’re Calgary in Business and Humboldt in commute time, neither are true.

And Wikipedia also has a whole “crime” section for Saskatoon, so take it for what it’s worth.

what a snotty, ignorant, and rude email. which has no purpose but to cut down people that work those jobs. Believe it or not real people work those jobs, and I know someone that actually likes working their.

These people are working and contributing, but it’s jerks like you who go on a public forum and cut them down. And for the “spot the most oppressed workers game” your a jerk

What happenned to this blog, before we used to talk about the housing market. Now it’s all about name calling, character assinations.

That sums it up, one last thing, Heather, quit being a tragity queen when people disagree with you.

Your numbers peaked my interest so I Wikipediaed this:

Red Deer AB: pop. 82,772

That’s bizarre… weren’t people on here saying Red Deer was comparable to Saskatoon? We’re more than 2.5X it’s size!

I’m an elitist in my own rite – I choose not to support Walmart, or McDonald’s. I’m boycotting them like many others have chosen to do for a multitude of reasons. I was a Walmart fanatic up until 3 years ago when I saw the documentary, “Walmart: The High Cost of Low Prices”. You can view the full-length film here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3836296181471292925

It wasn’t as difficult as I thought it would be to give up both. I felt it was something I could do to help start the momentum towards change. There are many large companies that practice unethical conduct towards people in 3rd world countries, the environment, and their own employees. A person can’t boycott them all (unless you live “outside” of society), but if the worst offenders are targeted they can be pressured to make changes, and others will follow. It’s all in the hands of consumers.

As for McDonald’s, they’re not only associated with Walmart but they are also the largest fast food empire in our super-size nation, they specifically target children, and their employee standards are subpar.

This was probably WAY more information than you cared to hear, but I wanted to be thorough.

“Saskatoon is comparable to Regina, Victoria, London (Ont), and Halifax in terms of facilities, importance, feel and population.”

Well, speaking strictly in terms of population, that’s a little off.

According to the 2006 census, Saskatoon has 214,000 people (in the city) and 233,927 (in the ‘greater metro area’ which I assume means Warman and outer towns).

Regina has 194,971 people in the “greater metro area”.

Victoria, London and Halifax are all substantially larger:

London has more than twice Saskatoon’s population: it’s home to 457,720 people.

Halifax’s population is 372,858.

Victoria is the smallest: it’s 330,088, including Saanich.

Saskatoon’s size is odd: other than Regina, the closest places in size are Shebrooke Quebec and St. John’s Newfoundland. Both are smaller but not by much. There’s not many places of around 200,000 in this country.

I agree, though, that the University and the geographic isolation work to make Saskatoon punch well above its demographic weight.

Source for all this stuff is this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_metropolitan_areas_in_Canada

What exactly are you inferring? Please explain. You clearly outed yourself as an elitist but I’m curious to hear it in your own words.

I guess I feel that with knife stabbings not many innocent bystanders would be at risk of getting hurt. I have to say though Saskatoon and Regina certainly don’t fare well with violent crime. Is Calgary’s violent crime rate significantly lower?

Candace,

You’ve made it very clear what you are, AND you shop at Walmart – ‘nuf said.

Winnipeg could be an arguable comparable to Saskatoon but it is a larger centre. On that note, Winnipeg housing prices are quite a bit lower and probably have some catching up. I’ll just leave this topic to say that, personally, I prefer investing in cities as opposed to towns as I believe in times of slow economic growth, a metro area greater than 200,000 generally has a more diversified economy than smaller centres which depend on fewer industries. Even if commodity prices crashed, for instance, the presence of the U of S, the research facilities and high tech spin-offs would still keep things going in Saskatoon. I could make the same argument for some of the other cities mentioned. I’m sure there are others with a different point of view but my strategy of buying rental properties in larger centres with large universities has worked well for decades for myself.

As for oil and gas, I know for a fact that companies right now are moving into Saskatchewan to explore and develop. Alberta has lost any tax or cost advantages in this area. In fact, I can name a three companies I have shares in right now that are ramping up in a big way their Sask. operations particularly in the Bakken fields. With new horizontal drilling techniques, this resource is much easier and less costly to develop than the tar sands. So it is a reality that the energy industry is expanding its presence. This may or may not increase real estate prices but it does mean the bottom is not falling out of Saskatchewan any time soon.