U.S. Federal Reserve to tighten lending rules
Posted by on July 13, 2008
Good idea Ben! It would be foolhardy to encourage a second mortgage crisis while you’re busy dealing with the first one.
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Norm Fisher
Royal LePage Saskatoon Real Estate
69 comments so far. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:38 PM
I believe the new “rules” are basically the same as the Canadian system.
Good move for the future as long as they don’t go and remove them like idiots in 2 or 3 years when “good times” come back, which wouldn’t surprise me.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:39 PM
“The Federal Reserve is expected to overhaul lending rules on Monday in an effort to prevent another mortgage crisis”
Prevent ANOTHER mortgage crisis???
This one is bringing down financial institutions, decimating Wall Street, creating massive asset deflation, and pretty much destroying the economy.
Even if this “overhaul” happens, it will have as much effect as passing gas in a hurricane.
I would laugh, if it weren’t so sad, really.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Crikey,
It really is a sad, sad state of affairs.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:40 PM
The Fannie and Freddie doomsday scenario
“If Fannie or Freddie failed, it would be far worse than the fall of [investment bank] Bear Stearns,” says Sean Egan, head of credit ratings firm Egan Jones. “It could throw the economy into depression or something close to it.”
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/09/news/companies/benner_fanniefreddie.fortune/?postversion=2008071007
The worst is yet to hit the markets. Financial meltdown coming? I wouldn’t bet against it.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Hey, so lucky this will never happen in Canada. So I can go and spend $300,000 on an outdated crummy east end bungalow!! Because we will never crash like the states, no matter how high the bloated housing inventory in Saskatoon gets.
Haven’t we in Canada learned anything from the states?
May 1st, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, together owning $5 trillion worth of home loans, are on the verge of nationalization by Washington. The shareholder-owned and publicly-traded companies have lost about 80% of their market value and the US Treasury Secretary was forced to make a rare Sunday afternoon pronouncement that Washington won’t let them fail. That was to prevent a total meltdown on the stock market come Monday.
Well, I guess every US citizen is a homeowner now, whether they like it or not. The financially prudent will pay for the debt party for a long time to come, it seems.
Socialism for the rich, and capitalism for the poor. Nice.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:41 PM
And people said I was bad!
May 1st, 2009 at 1:42 PM
It is hard to see how the US economic meltdown will not hurt Canadian banks who are already taking hits for their involvement in the US sub-prime debacle. But is there any evidence to suggest that Canadian house foreclosures are up?
My question is to what extent is Saskatoon insulated from asset (house) devaluation by virtue of strong economics, job growth and population influx? And is this likely to offset credit constriction by the banks and the removal of the 0-40 mortgages which will add to downward pressure on house prices?
May 1st, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Sam,
According to the Canadian government, “Mortgage arrears—overdue mortgage payments—have also remained low. In recent years, the percentage of mortgages in arrears for three months or more continues to be at low levels not seen since 1990.”
I don’t imagine that foreclosures were a big deal in the U.S. either until values started to fall. When demand is big and prices are increasing foreclosure is fairly easy to avoid even if you can make payments, because it’s easy to sell.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Sam –
All the US bubble markets that had massive year-over-year gains claimed that these were driven by strong economics, job growth and net in-migration, not speculation. Not a one claimed that their massive RE runups were caused by anything but legitimate purchases by owner-occupiers, all of whom flocked to Florida/Las Vegas/Phoenix/San Diego for the abundant jobs and lovely weather.
I’m innately suspicious of that argument, since it’s just too bloody familiar. Even Alberta — with its amazing economy — has falling house prices.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Touche jrochest, and Alberta’s housing prices are dropping despite wages and wage growth way beyond Saskatchewan’s. So if Alberta’s house prices aren’t justified, Saskatoon with similar, maybe even higher house prices, and lower wages, is definitely over valued and 50% + in one year? That’s definitely speculation.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Since the dust has settled, the reports are coming from the States that the bidding wars were because of people buying second and third properties.
Lax lending standards produced the bidding wars here as well. A bit of the demand was people moving back from Alberta. A few were first time buyers caught buying at the wrong time.But the rest of the bidding war demand last year was people buying 2 or 3 properties.
When Canadian news reports say that speculation is not a problem in the Canadian housing industry I don’t trust them. Why does the hottest economy in Canada the last 5 years (Calgary) have inventory that compares to Phoenix per capita( Top 5 US housing bubble)?
May 1st, 2009 at 1:45 PM
I saw some rental houses from Stonebridge in the paper. Looks like they can not sell the houses, so they are going to take a breathier, rent and hope they can sell later. They want 2395 + utilities for this house. Good luck!
I watched this play out in Calgary the last year. People bought at the peak, tried to flip, couldn’t, forced to rent out. A year later they are out 80-100k if they had to sell. Many of these people are financially ruined.
Expect a tonne more of houses like these from Stonebridge and I would expect some from Willowgrove as well being rented out. I am sure there are listings jumping from MLS and Saskhouses cause they are not selling.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:45 PM
If you check out Kijiji you see this too: lots of people renting out places with MLS listings.
It’s particularly amusing when they have the same place listed for sale and for rent — and the rent is half the carrying cost of mortgage/taxes & insurance.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Is it amusing for you jrochest? Do you like to laugh at dead animals on the side of the road too?
May 1st, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Typical homeowner said”
“Is it amusing for you jrochest? Do you like to laugh at dead animals on the side of the road too?”
Please, get a grip.
I only know jrochest through this blog, but I’m certain there is no glee to be had in watching the market/economy crash and burn. We are all very concerned, at what seems to be a highly dangerous combination of present events.
If you’d like to look back at his/her previous posts, you’ll find this to be the case. Please to your homework before pointing fingers at people.
By the way, any psychologist worth his or her salt will tell you that when people get very defensive, they usually do so because they know there is a grain of truth to what the other person is saying, and they respond out of fear. For example, if someone were to say something you know to be blatantly false, like, “Your nose has turned purple”, you would laugh it off or ignore them, because their premise is ridiculous.
You’re obviously feeling VERY defensive.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Typical homeowner, dead animals? Houses doubled in a couple years. How about homeless animals?
You losing 15% of your current value only sucks if you bought it in the last couple months. And then it’s your own fault, for not checking this blog, where we’ve been saying since April that there were signs of increased inventory, over valued properties, lack of income growth/lower income than cheaper Alberta.
Typical, the writing was on the wall. If you bought recently, you just chose to ignore all the signs you should have held off buying for a year or too. You ignored Crikey’s explanation of the financial benefit of renting, and investing the savings, and you just got caught up in media hype. Now the media is starting to turn, and public consensus seems to be prices are in for a big drop. Then again, average price in January 2008 $250,000, Now $290,000. A drop of 15% from current leaves you about the same. Not many people are really hurt, just those naive to buy at the peak of the boom. And really, who really thinks a home in Saskatoon should ever have cost more than higher paying Edmonton?
Or you already own, and should have sold and moved at the peak to Edmonton, upgrading housing and jobs, and now you’re just being selfish, not wanting to admit the house you bought for $200,000 a few years ago may only be $300,000 now instead of $350,000 …
well, that’s the way it’s going to be.
Maybe worse if mortgage changes really decrease even further the number of buyers and scare down prices in the mean time.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Oh, the Sask market/economy is crashing and burning? Please explain!
May 1st, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Seems typical homeowner dost protest too much …
tough to feel bad for speculators and flippers, whose efforts to earn a quick buck were largely behind driving up prices to unrealistic and unaffordable levels
talked to a guy today, bought a condo 2 months ago, now the other units in his building have all been reduced by $20,000. Ouch! How many years of mortgage payments will that be on a 40 year mortgage?
talked to some one else who was scared about selling their rental properties off at the peak, mad they had waited and not cashed in a few months ago
Market in Saskatoon is on the way down, guaranteed.
T. Homeowner does sound overly defensive, maybe mad he/she didn’t sell a few months ago? Too greedy to lose $20,000 already in value? I’d get on the bandwagon, you’re either in denial or just stubborn. Sell at least some where near peak.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Your comments make me laugh. It does not matter to proffesional speculators they are gone long time ago.
As for me I have 18 houses in saskatoon alone I rent them all out I am a good landlord tenants seem to think so. If you want a crash youll get one and the speculators will be back buying everything at a discount just like the states now, and ill be buying more houses for rent. If rents are cut in half ill lower my rents to half and still make money. The people getting burned are ametuers feel sorry for them. And even if the pros got caught buying at the top they bought with cash no morgatge they can afford to lose and wait. It sucks but that is the way it is.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:50 PM
To repeat, please tell me how and why the Sask market/economy is crashing and burning
May 1st, 2009 at 1:51 PM
Ok, fair enough, Crikey said:
“I’m certain there is no glee to be had in watching the market/economy crash and burn.”
But I am still waiting for someone to give me the lowdown on the Sask economy “crashing and burning”. This is a Saskatoon real estate blog, I assume that’s what you were talking about when you said crash and burn Crikey.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:51 PM
No, I neither said that the Sask economy was crashing and burning, or that I or anyone else wanted to see it crash and burn.
Again, please refer to previous posts. You’re obviously new here, so do some homework. This is what I posted last week to someone else who claimed we were immune and started attacking others for their POV:
“‘ve never met Jim, so I don’t know, but I don’t get the impression that he’s trying to “scare” poetential homebuyers. Buying a house is not without financial risk, and unless you have a significant downpayment, a short amortization period, and you plan to stay in your house for a good long time, in a falling/depreciating market there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of risk. No one is telling you not to buy, just to buy wisely.
How are you backing up your assertion that there will be no housing “crash” or even “correction” in Canada? What is going to protect us from what the rest of the world is experiencing? The economy in the US is going to pot, and 75-80% of our exports go there. Who’s going to buy our stuff? If our dollar is overvalued, why would they? Where are you getting your information from? The Star-Phoenix?
You may assert that real estate is local, but it is initmately tied to the economy, and the Canadian economy is intimately tied to the global economy.
In Candada, household debt is at a record. The national savings rate is zero (in the US and UK, it’s WAY below zero). Over 80% of family net worth is in real estate. Houses are coming down in value. Gasoline and energy costs are at a record high. Family income has stagnated.
In Toronto and Vancouver, sales are falling off a cliff, which likely means prices will deteriorate by the end of the year. Home sales in the GTA are down 18% over this time last year, and crashed 9% last month alone. In Vancouver, sales have dropped by 43% in a year, and the number of people trying to bail has grown steadily, with listings up 18%. Prices have already started to deline in Calgary and Edmonton. What makes you think we’re immune?
Canada is following a year or so behind the problems in the US and several European countries (notably the UK, Ireland and Spain), but we are inexorably moving in the same direction. Our real estate excesses have been less extreme, the property market will still likely decline sufficiently far to put many mortgage holders in negative equity. In addition, our banking system is acutely vulnerable to disruptions in the derivatives market. For instance, CIBC is on the hook for huge reinsurance losses ($6.7 BILLION, possibly more). If you don’t think that credit is going to be harder to come by globally due to this, I’m afraid you’re sadly mistaken.”
Sadly, since I wrote this, things have gotten markedly worse in the financial sectors, and yes, this has and will continue to effect Canadian Banks. Why do you think lending standards are being tightened (albeit too late)? Because everything is peachy keen? No, because our banks realize they are headed down the same path.
Please let me reiterate: no one is happy about this state of affairs.
For what it’s worth, the US really produces quite little of value that can’t be produced somewhere else. I feel relatively good about living here, as we produce many things people need worldwide. Please realize, though, that the production of all these things need fuel, and the more expensive fuel gets, the more expensive the things we make/extract are going to be to produce and transport. The effects of this may be “softenened” for us somewhat, but we are not in some special kind of protective bubble.
Now that I’ve partially explained my thesis, typical homeowner, please tell me why our economy is special and completely protected for the rest of the world.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:52 PM
john,
Glad to see you’re contributing towards Saskatoon’s vacancy rate. That’s something we really need improved more than anything. With stale sales there will be more rental properties coming onto the market every month. That’s just fine with me!
I feel for first time home owners that bought in at the peak, especially if they end up needing to sell in the next year or two. I don’t have much sympathy for “amateur” speculators. If you don’t know the rules, don’t play the game.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Well I get the sense from this blog that there are certainly indicators that show that house prices are due for a decline. I am assuming how much is anyone’s guess. And recent purchasers may be in for an at least temporary situation where they have negative equity.
As an aside and as a recent arrival from Ontario, I am quite dismayed by the local newspaper that seems to indicate there is some sort of housing boom underway here, when a closer analysis would indicate otherwise.
While I for one would certainly appreciate house prices that have a causal relationship to annual income, I do not get any glee in watching people lose money. But I suppose that in an inherent risk in any investment.
Does anyone have a best guess on when a good time to purchase a house in Sakatoon might be?
May 1st, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Sam.
I have the same question, as I am looking to buy as well. Houses definately seem ready for a decline but…interest rates seem ready for an increase. I’m considering winter. Hopefully the stuff that hasn’t sold by then will be dropped in price and people will be ancy over less buyers in winter and higher heating costs. The only problem with that is…when you have snow you can’t see the yard and I don’t think building inspectors can check the roof all that well. And of course moving in -40 pretty much sucks. But that’s what rye and friends are for haha! Probably next Spring would be best if things continue the way they are, but by then mortgage rates may be up.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Here’s a link of interest (based on a report from the CREA):
Home prices slip for first time in nine years:
http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080715.whousing0715/BNStory/Business/home
Markets with the greatest year-over-year decrease in unit sales in June
-Greater Vancouver – down 42.9 per cent
-Regina – down 33.8 per cent
-Saskatoon – down 32.7 per cent
-Victoria – down 24.4 per cent
Markets with the highest year-over-year increase in unit sales in June
-Trois-Rivieres – up 29.8 per cent
-Saguenay – up 11 per cent
-Saint John – up 4.2 per cent
-Ottawa – up 2.6 per cent
Markets with the greatest year-over-year price increases in June
-Regina – up 43.2 per cent
-Saskatoon – up 23 per cent
-Sudbury – up 20.6 per cent
-Saguenay – up 18.1 per cent
Markets with greatest year-over-year price declines in June
-Edmonton – down 2.6 per cent
-Calgary – down 2 per cent
-Victoria – down 1.1 per cent
-Windsor-Essex – down 0.5 per cent
Markets with the greatest year-over-year increase in listings in June
-Saskatoon – up 48.8 per cent
-Sudbury – up 45.1 per cent
-Regina – up 40.5 per cent
-St. Catharines & District – up 20.4 per cent
Markets with the greatest year-over-year decline in listings in June
-Edmonton – down 19.1 per cent
-Calgary – down 8.4 per cent
-Thunder Bay – down 7.1 per cent
-Windsor-Essex – down 7.1 per cent
May 1st, 2009 at 1:53 PM
You guys are making some mistakes here IMO.
Is the United States in trouble?
Yes.
Will it affect us?
Yes.
Are we due for a “Great Depression”?
Nobody knows. Those old enough to remember also remember that every recession since the 70′s has had people saying “its the great depression”. Over 2000 banks failed in 1980′s in the US. In the great depression, over 9000 failed in 3 years (about 300 a month during 1930-1932).
Today, they are predicting that 300 banks could probably fail over the next 2 years. Lets put in a drastic scenario and say that 1000 banks fail (likely), well, that sure isn’t anything like the 80′s and you need to keep in mind that the US has a much larger population than it did back then.
Could unemployment go to 27% like it did at the hight of the 30′s? Yes, but keep in mind the stock market has yet to “crash” and unemployment in the states is still at 5.5%, though rising.
I speak to Americans all the time, and many of them feel that things are “bad” but still much better than reported on TV. Some are in dire straights, but no worse than other people who recently lost a job.
How much will it affect us here in SASKATCHEWAN (Not Canada)?
That is the main question. Comodity prices are not going to drop just because the US is having economic difficulties. The things we produce and sell are NECESSETIES to life, not “wants” like new dishwashers or cars or trucks like Ontario relies on and we have diversified enough to sell those to other countries now.
In the 30′s, Saskatchewan went bust because we had 8 years of drought and an economy that was about 80% driven by agriculture, which was non-existant due to the drought.
Today, agriculture is about 10% of the economy and we have actually had drier years than in the 30′s, but improved farming techniques help farmers cope. Like it or not, people need to eat.
Sask is very strong economically, population is increasing, etc, etc. The comodity prices will eventually decline, but for the next couple of years, we are going to be fairly good, even if the US market starts to decline massively. The things we sell them are still necessities to life, unlike cars and trucks and other things, like Ontario produces.
Basically, I feel that some of you here are reading all the articles on Reuters, Digg, etc and running into a negative feed back loop and putting in “worst case scenarios” for Saskatchewan, and just tossing out all the “good things” going for us, which are numerous.
Now don’t get me wrong, I am FULLY in agreement that prices are going to correct somewhat over the next few months, but I believe it will be a slower correction than people believe, just because we may be the last “beacon of hope” in Canada, keeping in migration high.
If people are desperate, they will migrate where jobs are, and Sask has an unemployment rate of 4.0%, down from 4.1% in June and construction projects are being delayed now because they cant find people to do things.
Of course, once we enter our own slower times here in 2010 or 2011, ya, I think that is when we will finally see the full “correction” or “collapse” that people here talk about. We delayed Canada in going up and will delay Canada when going down (and then back up).
Also, as for the rental situation, it is horrible right now. Regina and Saskatoon are essentially 1% vacancy right now, and that will get worse in August with the schools starting up again. How many people are saying that the students are having harder times finding places to rent this year than last year, and last year was horrible?
All you thinking that renting is suddenly going to drop are once again, far ahead of the curve (though accurate long term).
As for buying a home, if I was looking to buy a home right now, I would do it in the fall, or you might as well just wait for 2 or 3 years and who knows what will happen. By then we could be *** up, or all the mega-industrial projects planned will have driven things up. Who knows.
I think that this fall is going to show prices remaining a bit more level than people are thinking (but still down 5 or 10% from the early spring insanity) but this means you can spend the same money on a MUCH BETTER home, and not on a piece of crap and that is what people will be looking for.
Obviously, in the spring things will perk up again as they have historically forever, (though not at 2008 spring levels) but it wont be a “collapse”.
As well, there are quite a few people in Alberta and other provinces who want to move here and that will keep demand strong for a while yet (though not at stupid levels).
As well, if our prices tank, we will still be cheaper than the rest of Canada when all is said and done, plus have jobs here. Where do you think people are going to come? No job in Ontario or job in Saskatchewan? Hmmm.
Basically, if we are going to follow the US down into a spiral, you wont see that happen HERE until the rest of Canada has begun to go down as well, because of our economy.
Take Texas for example. Prices are actually still rising for homes in Huston right now, which is booming and many other States have not even been rocked (yet).
We lagged Canada with price increases and we will lag Canada with a correction, because of our economic factors.
Again, I am not saying that things wont go down, but I really think it will be much more gradual than a lot of people believe and it will be at least 2 or 3 more years before Comodity prices go down enough that it will affect us.
This is NOT California. We actually have something here that people want and will for years to come (though that doesn’t mean we are in boom times forever, we will have our own cycles).
Now, if your worried about a great depression, well, do you honestly think that having or not having a home will matter? or that the money in the bank really means anything if that happens?
If things get that bad, all the people with homes will forclose and walk away from them and that will be that. Those with money will find their money doesn’t buy as much as they thought it does, or will have more important matters than worrying about a mortgage.
This forum is starting to get silly.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Mithan,
You obviously put a lot of effort into that, which is great. You also make some good points about the Sask economy, which I don’t think many peple are diagreeing with. However, who mentioned anything about another great depression?? Am I missing something?
Some points I’d like to make:
You say: Over 2000 banks failed in 1980′s in the US. In the great depression, over 9000 failed in 3 years (about 300 a month during 1930-1932).
Today, they are predicting that 300 banks could probably fail over the next 2 years.”
I say: The numbers of banks involved may be correct (I haven’t checked), but in terms of real dollars, even if 200 banks fail, we are looking at losing tens of trillions of dollars. There is no way the FDIC or the Fed could cover this amount of damage. This is more than the GDP of the entire country. Far more. They were already 8 trillion in the hole before this happened. This was not the case in the 1930′s.
You said: “Could unemployment go to 27% like it did at the hight of the 30′s? Yes, but keep in mind the stock market has yet to “crash” and unemployment in the states is still at 5.5%, though rising.”
I say: Have you been watching the stock market lately, particularly financial stocks? And yes, the “official” unemployement ate in the states is around 6%, but the government doesn’t include people who have been loooking for work for more than a year, nor those that are “underemployed”, and they perferentially don’t take their samples from the inner cities. The real unemloyment rate is creeping in on 12-16% in the US. Government statistics are very easily manipulated. Look at: http://www.shadowstats.com/
As to the other points I’d disagree with, it will just have to wait for another time. I’m WAY too tired.
You’re right, we do have alot more going for us than most places in N. America.
‘Nuff said.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:54 PM
I guess I will take a wait and see attitude about buying a house. Traditionally product over capacity should cause a decline in price. Part of the complexity of the current situation is peak oil, which should, by my estimate anyway, negatively effect the price of suburban and commuter homes to a larger extent than urban dewllings.
I think late September may be a good time to take stock of the Sakatoon housing market.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Wow — quite a bit of commentary!
To address the ‘Typical Homeowner” comment first:
I’m amused by the difference between asking prices and rental rates, because they’re the difference between reality and fiction. They indicate that a speculator is trying to sell a piece of property for twice what it’s worth, based on rental rates — and that they MUST be aware of this, since they’re renting it for market value.
It makes me laugh because I know that person bought based on the expectation that the property would rise in value, rather than buying based on the income the property could generate. And they are now stuck, which they didn’t expect. I will not sympathize with nimrod flippers whose ‘business plan’ depends on ruining the market for owner-occupiers. Cry me a bloody river.
John, above, is a good example of an investor, not a speculator: he buys based on cash flow. Perfectly reasonable, that’s what landlords do.
As to the rest:
I’m not qualified, at all, to speak to global economics. But I think Crikey’s pretty much nailed it.
I don’t think anyone’s claiming we’re going to have another Great Depression, since that was the biggest economic downturn in history and led to WWII and the rise of Fascism: for the record, I do not think that is what is happening.
But I think that the global economy is going to slow, and it wouldn’t surprise me if we have a recession, late 70′s/early 80′s, early 90′s style. Economic slowdown, *not* economic collapse. And it will be very hard for Saskabush to grown when everyone else is shrinking and scrimping and saving.
Even if there’s no recession though, Saskatoon RE is toasty-done.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Oh, and Sam — I think we’re at least 2 years behind the USA and about a year behind Calgary, and that we’re on the same trajectory. So I’m not going to buy anything for at least two years, unless this correction happens much faster than anyone of us expects.
But that’s just me.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:55 PM
If your buying for the long term (5-10 years) it doesn’t matter what happens provided you can pay your mortgage and have a job.
Things will soften now, but prices always go up long term. That’s simply a statistical fact, even in Saskatchewan
And even if things go *** up in Sask next year or the year after, we still have tonnes of crap in the ground that will eventually be exploited 10 years from now, thats just a fact.
No doubt our for fathers were saying the same thing in the late 70′s when Sask had a similar “boom and bust” cycle, but in the end, anybody who bought and stayed and had a mortgage they could afford, came out ahead.
I believe that home prices at the end of the 70′s rose up like crazy and then rolled back about 20-30% over a few years in the early 80′s and then started going up again, even with 18% interest rates.
So by 2000, prices were essentially 4-5 times what they were in 1980.
George posted a picture of the Calgary real estate market from 1980. That was a totally different situation, having been forced down by the National Energy Program. Yes, we could see a “green shift” approach by the Libtards if they were ever elected, but I believe Alberta would seriously consider breaking away if that was to happen a second time. Honestly, I don’t think that Green Shift is ever going to happen, at least not in its proposed form.
And jroch, I agree that if you wait 2 years, that is the best bet if you are that worried about it. One thing I think we can all agree on is that prices will probably NOT go up anymore, unless something happens that forces mass migration in a very short period of time (doubtful since all of Sasks economic expansion plans will take years).
What we don’t know is how much things will correct. 5 or 10% is nothing IMO and I seriously doubt that prices will ever go back to 2006 levels (what would that be, a 50% correction?)
Still, as we have said before, if prices were to drop down to mid 2007, that alone would represent a good 15-20% correction.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:55 PM
jroch and norm:
I apologize if I am coming off as over defensive, but I am having a tough right now and all the doom and gloom stuff really gets to me.
I would like to offer something else as well.
What do you think of our Regina Market?
My experience is in the Regina market, which is actually much different than Saskatoon anyways (so why am I arguing on this blog?
)
While you guys were always higher than us, the difference is now about 30%, while I think in the past it was about 10-15% as far back as 2004 or 2005.
Saskatoon has risen more than us, even considering you started higher.
You have clearly over built a lot more than us.
You started going up a good 6-9 months ahead of us (we started our big rise in mid/late 2006, and I think you guys started early in 2006 or even late 2005).
Your population IS bigger, but what is 15 or 20k people? Nothing to warrant a 30% RE increase.
The funny thing is, Regina has a higher income bracket by about $8k I believe, mostly due to all the government jobs (which are going to get nice wage increases in the next few years).
We also have more going on in the short term, so I think that Regina will correct less. Also, we have less new home construction as well (almost 1/3 what you guys have), which will help us a lot if homes ARE over built.
I do believe Regina has more going for it in the short term with the IPSCO Iron Smelter addition, Oil Upgrader capacity upgrade, Inland Terminal and possible Poly Generation Plant at Bell Plain plus the Potash Mines, but again, I concede that these projects are all 2009+ and while they represent over $10 billion in investment, its still a 5 year plan.
As I said, yes I am defensive. I purchased a home in May and would like to think I am not going to end up upside down in 6 months from now.
Whats your take on the Regina market? If I didn’t value your opinion, I wouldn’t ask.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:55 PM
Oh I have another question:
How hard IS it to forclose on a mortgage?
Do you just basically call up the bank and tell them “I am done” and walk away from it, losing all your equity in the process?
I mention this because I noticed somebody above asked about forclosure rates and for some reason I was wondering how easy it is for people.
Part of the problem in the US is that it is extremely easy for people with $2k equity in a home to walk away from it. I believe that as bad as our debt situation is in Canada, that we are (on average) much better off than the US was on that part.
Still, it begs the question of how easy the forclosure process is in Canada. I have no clue, never haven thought about it until now.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:56 PM
its going to take a while for prices to come down any reasonable amount. I think there is still alot of people out there like me waiting for prices to drop and will jump all over a good deal when it appears. prices arn’t going to plummet. In a years time if the prices have dropped slightly. for a first time buyer putting 5% on a line of credit and paying alot higher interest(which it will be in a years time). The drop in prices arn’t going to make a big different.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Mithan — Norm can tell you more, I’m just some idiot commentator on a blog
. It’s easy for me, because I’m not sitting in the ocean liner wondering how, exactly, one launches a lifeboat if things go badly wrong.
I think the speculators targeted Saskatoon — who knows why? — and this is why the prices went up so much more here. It’s also why I’m expecting a much bigger decrease.
But I only think you’re in trouble if you bought something you can’t pay for (more than 3x your income), something you really don’t want to live in, or something you planned to flip. If you’re not planning on moving or selling within the next 5-7 years, and you’re not hoping to make money on the property, you should be fine.
I think the foreclosures will be driven by people who bought properties on spec, with the intent of flipping quick.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:56 PM
jrochest,
“I think we’re at least 2 years behind the USA and about a year behind Calgary, and that we’re on the same trajectory”
I totally agree here. It seems like Calgary has been kind of a crystal ball for Saskatoon.
Calgary SFH 2007 July $505,000
Calgary SFH 2008 July $457,000
http://www.findcalgary.ca/
Calgary will go down even further, why?
There is double the inventory this year compared to last. Supply and demand.
Mortgage rates are higher this year and will continue inching up. Buyers afford less house with same money.
No more 40 year mortgages, or 0 down. Smaller pool of buyers.
If you bought a house in Calgary in July 07 and tried to flip this July you would be out 80-100k. Ouch!
Same thing here. I imagine anybody who bought this spring to flip for next year will be in for some serious financial pain.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Jay,
“In a years time if the prices have dropped slightly”
If slightly, do you mean 50k? If we are at 300k right now, I will say 250k for next July. And that is with the economy staying strong and interest rates only moving up 1%. If rates skyrocket or economy tanks, Oh boy.
Not that I want to brag but I wrote last fall on here we would hit 300k for average house price.
In reality the average house price should be between 215k -240k right now.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Mithan,
Trust your own instincts and don’t let the thoughts and comments of others make you sick. You’ve bought the house and it’s unlikely that the decision will turn your life upside down. Every economist that has spoken on the issue has been fairly optimistic calling for small corrections as a worst case scenario. With all due respect to those who comment here, people often express opinions which meet their own best case scenarios. They want to believe that things will work out for them. Who knows what will happen? Don’t get swept up in the talk that goes on here. As you suggested, if you bought your home to live in it and you plan to be there awhile you have far less to be concerned about than those that might need to sell in a year. My advice? Enjoy your home. If this kind of talk drives you crazy you might want to stop coming around (not that I want that).
On your foreclosure questions. I’m not a lawyer and I am not 100% certain. Perhaps lawtalkingguy can chip in here. Don’t do anything without consulting a lawyer.
Foreclosure is a process which is initiated by a lender when a home owner is in arrears. A home owner cannot initiate that process. I can’t recall the entire process but it takes a long time to get a home owner out of their property when in default. Further, there are protections in this province under the Limitations of Civil Rights Act which limit your liability in the event of foreclosure (provided that you bought the home as a natural person and occupy it as a principal residence). If a lender successfully forecloses they cannot chase you for any shortfall after selling the property.
If you were wanting to initiate some process to unload the house on your lender, I believe you could likely sign a “quit claim,” waiving all rights to the property, dumping it in their lap and walk away.
A quit claim or a foreclosure isn’t going to do much for your ability to borrow money. By Saskatchewan law, I think a credit bureau can keep that information on your file for as long as seven years.
lawtalkingguy,
I don’t deal with thse kinds of questions with any regularity. Am I anywhere near correct?
May 1st, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Flipping gone bad in Edmonton
http://www.edmontonrealestateblog.com/my_weblog/2008/07/weekly-update-1.html
I’s like to extend a little advice (for what its worth) to those of you tempted to jump in the market now. I think I can humbly speak with a bit of experience as someone who bought into a prebuilt condo just a year and a couple months ago with 10% down ($35,200). The cost of the condo was $352,900. In my naivity,I figured all would keep rising and I would make a profit. Similar condos (actually slightly bigger and better) by the same builder recently have been selling for $275K-$279K. Mine will be ready in the fall, but given the 77K depreciation, my lawyer has gotten me out of the contract, but I had to forfeit my 35K deposit. (yes,I feel foolish) The states is collapsing,the world markets are correcting both in stocks and housing,the oil prices are skyrocketing, They can’t sell trucks and Rv’s, and the mideast is a ticking timebomb. Major banks and morgage companies are tetering on bankrupcy in the US. Here at home the warning bells are ringing loud and clear. Don’t make my mistake (or anything close to it) Things, sadly, are going to get much, much worse. Theres narey an economic mind out there who isn’t sounding the warning sirens. Wait until spring and see where we’re at. Be prudent and do your due diligence. By the way, I had a gut feeling when I signed that deposit cheque that said NO, STOP. But I didn’t listen. For what its worth I have that same gut feeling now. Blessings to you all.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:58 PM
“Every economist that has spoken on the issue has been fairly optimistic calling for small corrections as a worst case scenario.”
I understand that you were trying to comfort a recent homebuyer when you said this, but I can’t quite believe that you said it.
Care to elaborate? I’m hoping I misunderstand.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Crikey,
The guy bought a house in May. Today, he’s asking questions about foreclosure, likely before he’s made his first mortgage payment. He’s looking in here on a daily basis and everyone has him convinced that his world is turning upside down. I am simply reminding him that not everyone feels like the bottom is going to fall out and that there are some other smart people out there who are not nearly as pessimistic about the future of real estate.
“…Saskatchewan’s major markets offer an exception to the cooling trend on an annual basis, but this is mostly a question of timing. The price surge above 30% growth came late last year and much of the momentum is being carried into this year. But, if Regina and Saskatoon follow the path just recently threaded by Calgary and later Edmonton – and we think they will – Saskatchewan’s price growth will have come back down to earth by early next year. We are looking for 2-3% price growth in 2009, with a risk of a mild price correction.” Craig Alexander and Pascal Gauthier – TD Economics – June 29, 2008.
“It’s a bit unnerving to see how Canadian performance is beginning to look like that of the U.S. two years down the line,” Mr. Porter said. “There are a litany of reasons why the Canadian market is different,” Mr. Porter said. “But even a very pale version of what we saw in the U.S. would not be good news.” In the West, the declines look like modest corrections to markets that got ahead of themselves, Mr. Porter said. Douglas Porter – BMO Nesbitt Burns – June 27, 2008
Like many other industry watchers, both Mr. Porter and Mr. Alexander are still expecting moderate home-price gains this year. An environment of low, and falling, interest rates is the major difference between the Canadian economy now compared with past cycles in which residential real estate prices have dropped, Mr. Alexander said. Globe and Mail – April 17, 2008
“Canada’s housing market is on much firmer footing than the U.S. market. Although the arrival of slipping house prices in markets like Calgary and Edmonton are raising concern that Canada might be headed for a U.S-style correction,the recent softening in house prices is part of a natural end-of-cycle slowdown that is expected to take hold through 2008. Several factors support our view that Canada’s market is simmering down but still in healthy shape, including Canada’s more conservative lending practices, healthy household finances, tight labour markets and a manageable inventory situation. As housing markets transition onto a softer growth path, sellers will gradually lose their negotiating power, but the degree of power lost will vary considerably by region. Sales-to-new-listings ratios have largely moved out of seller’s territory in most markets and are likely to stabilize in the soft end of a balanced market by year-end. A declining sales-to-listings ratio points to the risk of further price cooling ahead, but the risk of significant price declines is still low, and Canada’s housing market is expected to eke out modest price gains in 2008. Saskatchewan jumped into the spotlight in 2007 as a commodity-led expansion attracted an influx of migrants and led to a major housing market boom. Regina and Saskatoon continue to clock year-over-year price gains that are several multiples above the pace of their local wage growth. This lends evidence that current momentum is unsustainable, with a similar fate to Alberta’s likely for both of these cities in a year’s time.” Amy Goldblum – RBC Economics – May 26, 2008.
Now I realize that these aren’t exactly glowing predictions and I understand that there are reasons to be concerned and that Saskatchewan is among the most vulnerable to correction, but with the exception of jrochest, I haven’t even heard many bears predict declines greater than 15%. I think the number that I threw out was in the range of 10%, and I’m open to the idea that it could be greater. That’s all speculation. The verdict is not in and all of the positive factors that Mithan pointed out in his previous comments are pretty much true. If he were to ask me today, “should I buy right now?”, I’d probably say “no.” He has already bought and as you suggest, I’m trying to provide some comfort and I’m suggesting that it might be a little soon to plan his foreclosure. There are some well-informed people who are not predicting the end of the world as we know it. If the market falls 15% over the next few years, it won’t be the end of Mithan’s world, or mine, or yours. If the bottom falls out, it won’t matter what you or I own, or what we don’t own. We’ll all be broke.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Nevermind my last post. Clearly, no one could possilby have knowledge of what every economist is saying, nor should it matter to Mithan.
Obviously, the phrase I should have focused on was “Enjoy your home”.
Please do enjoy your home, Mithan. It doesn’t necessarily matter what anyone says, economists included.
If I freaked you out, I apologize. Really.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:59 PM
Yes, Mithan — don’t let us panic you, for heaven’s sake. One would assume you like the house, and that you bought something you will be happy living in, that you can afford to pay for.
So don’t let us nattering nabobs of negativism get you down!
Good god, we could all be horribly wrong.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:59 PM
No offence Mithan, but other than the main stream media and maybe a real estate agent, who convinced you that May was the time to buy? That sucks dude. I know people who bought new then and the neighbors are already selling for a lot less.
Not to scare you, but while year over year, prices may be up in Saskatoon, I think pretty much everyone has agreed the average is going to be well down from the peak of over $300,000 – I think the 10% drop to $270,000 is a conservative estimate now that mortgage changes are about to decrease the number of already absent buyers even further.
At least good to know, so you can prepare for the worst if you’re only here for a while.
Then again, if you’re here for a lifetime, enjoy the house, might take 5 years for prices to get back to $300,000 average, but at least you’ll break even. Maybe time to max out the RRSP’s for savings though…
May 1st, 2009 at 1:59 PM
jay, I completely disagree, I think prices are going to drop pretty quick. A lot of people are going to want to sell their homes now, well before mortgage changes. This should cause a blip in the number of listings.
And then we’ll see a second drop, potentially bigger, in reaction to mortgage changes, some banks have already started, that mean a lot less people are going to be elligible, and those who are, won’t be able to afford as much.
Jay “its going to take a while for prices to come down any reasonable amount”
I bet they are down that 10% by early October. Easily. Just talk to some one on the street. I think people in Saskatoon are all talking about the bubble having burst. The same way prices went up on speculation, rumors and unsubstantiated claims, they will fall on peer pressure, fear and hopefully partially because of some realization of how over valued Saskatoon is, low wages and all.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Crikey,
I shouldn’t have said “every economist.” You’re right that I don’t know what every economist has said.
“He’s looking in here on a daily basis and everyone has him convinced that his world is turning upside down.”
This is also an unfair statement for which I apologize. Only Mithan is responsible for how Mithan feels. You all have a right to your opinions and I do appreciate you sharing them here.
Just trying to help him get some perspective.
I have no idea what his arrangement was in buying his home. If he bought it for the long term he has little to fear. If he bought it with 5-10% down, losing that (and his ability to borrow) is probably his worst case scenario if he absolutely has to move and finds himself in a negative equity situation. That would suck, but it’s probably not worth losing a whole bunch of sleep.
I think it’s also worth pointing out that Mithan bought a home in Regina, not Saskatoon. Many have pointed out in the past that incomes are substantially higher there and that prices have not increased as dramatically.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:01 PM
George,
Sorry that you got lost in the discussion here.
Your story is very interesting and instructive. There’s someone asking about building a “spec home” in another thread. I’m going to direct him over here.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Norm,
It was ridiculous of me to assume that you would know what every economist had said, and in the scheme of things, it doesn’t matter. I was just objecting to the word “every”. It was a long day.
Economists are notoriously bad at predicting anything, anyway, particularly if they’re employed by banks or real estate associations.
Thanks for putting up with us.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Yikes!, building a spec home now. Too late. Hope they have underwater mortgage insurance!
May 1st, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Touche Mithan, I forgot you bought in Regina, so hopefully you’re a bit better off. At least you probably earn more than your Saskatoon equivalent!
May 1st, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Norm said:
“On your foreclosure questions…. Perhaps lawtalkingguy can chip in here. Don’t do anything without consulting a lawyer.
Foreclosure is a process which is initiated by a lender when a home owner is in arrears. A home owner cannot initiate that process. I can’t recall the entire process but it takes a long time to get a home owner out of their property when in default. Further, there are protections in this province under the Limitations of Civil Rights Act which limit your liability in the event of foreclosure (provided that you bought the home as a natural person and occupy it as a principal residence). If a lender successfully forecloses they cannot chase you for any shortfall after selling the property.
If you were wanting to initiate some process to unload the house on your lender, I believe you could likely sign a “quit claim,” waiving all rights to the property, dumping it in their lap and walk away.
A quit claim or a foreclosure isn’t going to do much for your ability to borrow money. By Saskatchewan law, I think a credit bureau can keep that information on your file for as long as seven years.
lawtalkingguy,
I don’t deal with thse kinds of questions with any regularity. Am I anywhere near correct?”
Norm, I’m afraid I know very little about secured financing at the moment. For example, I’ve never heard of a “quit claim”.
I do know a little bit about foreclosure, and what you’ve said jives with what I know. There are quite a few steps that take place after a mortgagor falls behind on payments, and even after “foreclosure” has been initiated the borrower has an equitable right of redemption, which may allow them to save their house if they can get current on the payments.
Bottom line: First, borrow smart so you never need to know about any of this stuff.
Second, if you get into a situation where you need to know, make sure to contact a real lawyer. (No offense to myself, or to Norm)
May 1st, 2009 at 2:06 PM
I bought the house with 18% down, and as I said above, it was a bit of an emotional panic buy, which is why I unsure about it. I am single and don’t really NEED a home.
It is hard to watch prices go up up and up and all your friends and such get into a home and losing half a dozen bids and what not.
I was going to stop looking but found this house coming out for “cheap” and I made an idiot decision to put an offer on it, one I immediately regretted days later. I actually was going to just break out of the agreement and lose the deposit but my parents put a lot of pressure on me to hold in here.
Today I started my first pills for anxiety and will be talking to a councilor on Monday for help.
The really stupid thing is that there is so much happening here in Regina that I really shouldn’t be THAT worried, but now that I have depression coupled with anxiety from reading the worst news I can find on the internet, I am basically stuck in a negative feedback loop that re-enforces that I think I am essentially fucked.
Basically, I am now expecting the worst case scenario of a complete Global Collapse and the end of Civilization as we know it. You are all going to die of hunger in the next 3 years. Serious.
The really funny thing is that this home mortgage only is about 25% of my earnings, I have a very secure government job and I could probably rent out the basement for $800 a month easy and barely even notice a blip of difference to my life.
But again, because I feel I “panic bought” it originally, I am now not in a good position because I feel I could of lived at home 2 or 3 more years and just told people who laughed at a 31 year man living at home to *** off.
Yep, I have lost it.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Well Mithan, as long as you stay in your current house, you have a place to stay. Just sucks if you try moving soon.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Mithan,
You haven’t lost anything.
Try to come to terms with the fact that you made the decision to buy the house (even if it may have been under duress), and make the best of it. Try to focus on the fact that no amount of worry or anxiety is going to change the past, and let events play out. Long term, things (including the value of your house) will very likely recover. They have in the past. Until they do, try to focus on the positive.
You may already have a favorite activity that relaxes you. Basically, anything that can remove the focus from the current house/economy stress and place it somewhere else can help relieve stress, at least for a small while. Try staying off the websites that freak you out. Try reading a book or magazine, going for a walk if the weather is nice, exercising (a great stress reliever), or finding something that is ultimately productive. Stress and anxiety can tend to fester during periods of inactivity, as there is nothing else to occupy your mind. Being productive not only takes your mind off of whatever you may be worrying about, but a feeling of accomplishment can help change your mood. Seek out friends and family that are supportive.
Worry is normal, and you can’t be faulted for it. But it shouldn’t ruin your life. Realize and accept that it is something beyond your control, and enjoy whatever day-to-day happiness you can find.
Please remember that people in general, and society as a whole, is/are remarkably resilient.
Hang in there.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Mithan,
Good to hear that you’ll be speaking with a counselor and I hope you find the support you need.
I read a good book many years ago that was written by Dale Carnegie called, “How to Stop Worrying and Start Living.” I understand that these things are not always that simple but you might consider picking up a copy. It’s packed full of good ideas that others have used to deal with worry in their own lives and some practical ideas to help one deal with worry in a healthy way. I’ve recommended it several times and received good feedback from others.
Here’s one idea that I have used and find helpful.
1) Ask yourself, “What is the worst that can come of this situation? (I lose my 18%)
2) Prepare yourself mentally to accept that outcome (you could probably live with that. Wouldn’t be ideal but it wouldn’t kill ya either).
3) Enjoy every little improvement that presents itself after you’ve accepted the worst (hey, this ain’t so bad after all).
Hmmm. For some reason, my obscenity filter is offended by ***, but perfectly okay with f***ed. Something’s f***ed up there. Thanks for the heads up.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:10 PM
lawtalkingguy,
Thanks for the input.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Mithan,
You’re doing better than a lot of other people. With 18% down, and mortgage payments being 25% of your salary it’s ALL good, really! You’re not living paycheck to paycheck, and if interest rates rise you’ll still be safe. Don’t worry about the market declining, it won’t matter 5 years from now anyway. Be happy with your purchase, enjoy it!! If you’re experiencing anxiety due to the real estate market, it’s probably not a great idea coming on this blog, it will only make it worse. Just a suggestion. (And I’m NOT implying I don’t want you here)
May 1st, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Yeah you said this market was crashing and burning Crikey. I will stop reading any posts by you, unless of course you choose to admit that you said this: “but I’m certain there is no glee to be had in watching the market/economy crash and burn.” If you weren’t talking about Saskatoon in particular (this a Saskatoon real estate blog after all) then you should be more specific. Love the fact that you can’t edit posts on here, freezes posts in time, very nice.
Oh yeah, the Saskatoon market/economy is NOT crashing and burning, in case you were wondering about my position.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Mithan,
Think of it this way as a fellow home owner I am guaranteed the same payments for the amount of the term you did your mortgage for. Noone can raise my rent for the next 5 years when you own a home you are making yourself more financially stable and it makes life less predictable. If you dont believe me ask some friends of yours that rent they will tell you how much they are getting screwed and how their rent goes up every 3-6 months. So dont feel worried your in the best position of your life right now.
p.s.
Rent out the suite and be a good landlord no rent increases =o)
May 1st, 2009 at 2:13 PM
Mithan –
You’re not in a bad place at all: you’ve used a good downpayment, your payments are at a reasonable level related to your income, and you have the chance to rent out the basement to cover your other costs if you need to.
Prices will fall, but it doesn’t sound like you’re f***ed, at all.
Moving itself is pretty stressful: moving out of a place you’ve lived all your life is even more so. That may be having an effect on your emotional life, as much as the stress of buying a property!
May 1st, 2009 at 2:13 PM
‘Now that I’ve partially explained my thesis, typical homeowner, please tell me why our economy is special and completely protected for the rest of the world.”
I’m still waiting.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:13 PM
I heard that in Oct they are going to do away with the 40 year mortgages and the 0% down stuff to prevent any possible U.S. housing meltdown scenerio.
I’m wondering what others think the effect of this will be on the price of houses in Saskatoon.
david
May 1st, 2009 at 2:14 PM
David, I think prices will fall immediately and inventory will rise, as sellers try to cash out now, while there are still a moderate number of buyers – given that supply already far outstrips demand.
I think prices will fall further in the fall, as mortgage changes make buyers eligible for smaller amounts with shorter mortgages, and require them to put 5% down. 5% down on $300,000 (average house) is $15,000, so this will mean less buyers for at least a few years. And 5 less years amortization, means lower approved amounts, so less money for those who are approved.
Previous estimates called for a 10% drop in prices, before new mortgage rules were announced.
Maybe up to 20% drop from $300,000?
$240,000 is still almost what it was at the beginning of 2008, and with a huge increase in supply now, and demand about to take a hit, I think that’s a pretty reasonable estimate.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:18 PM
The end of week stats should be interesting.
Lots of sales from buyers using the 40 yr morts before they are gone?
Lots of inventory from sellers looking to get out before the fit hit the shan?
Or just more of the same inventory slowly edging up, prices slowly edging down?
Norm, how have sales and prices been since the mortgage changes? Any numbers you can give us yet? What’s the feeling with the local agents?
May 1st, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Why the Hell do some condos and apartments and townhouses show up on the mls when you specifically search for houses only? Annoying as all hell!
Emde, I’m looking at you!!!
May 1st, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Why the Hell:
Because some realtors seem to have a problem marking off the appropriate check box on their forms. They’ll mark them as “single family homes” instead of condos… and they mark “apartments” as bungalows. Also a pet peeve of mine.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Why the hell and Leslie,
Emde has these units listed as “Condominium apartments” on the MLS. Something is going on with them between the MLS and MLSOnline. Whatever it is, it’s not something that he is doing. I have contacted our association several times about issues with this piece of crap website. If you try a search of detached houses you’ll find that there’s nothing for sale in Saskatoon.
Lou Reed (if that is your real name
)
Click the “week in review” tag on the left sidebar. This is about as specific as I can get.